Kommer SuC-nettverket til å bli åpnet??

[Magnus Hansen]

Synes denne var interessant:

Andrew Baglino -- Senior Vice President, Powertrain and Energy Engineering

I think it's also important to comment that increasing the utilization of the network actually reduces our costs, which allows us to lower charging prices for our customers and make the network more profitable, allows us to grow the network faster. That's the good thing there. And then -- and no matter what, we're going to continue to aggressively expand the network capacity, increasing charging speeds, improving the trip planning tools to protect against site congestion using dynamic pricing, as Elon mentioned.

Bedret utnyttelse betyr jevnere utnyttelse. Jeg tolker det som at de vil prøve å oppnå at nye kunder i større grad vil lade utenfor ladernes rushtid. Som altså oppnås ved sterkt dynamisk prising. Som gjerne kan bety at de vil underby de kommersielle leverandørene på stille tidspunktet, men prise dyrere på utfartsdager. Det vil jo potensielt være problematisk for Fortum, Mer etc.

Ps dette trenger helle ikke være begrenset til ikke-teslaer. Mulig også Teslaeiere vil oppleve sterkere variasjon i prisingen for å oppfordre til lading utenfor rushtiden. Vi har jo litt av det allerede, men det er mulig å gjøre variasjonene større

[Counterpointer]

De sa også at prising blir tidsbasert, ikke kWh basert (eller kombinasjon..?) Og at prising blir sterkt dynamisk.

Er spent på å se hva som i praksis ligger i «sterkt dynamisk»!

Det kan bety mange ting. Det kan for eksempel bli veldig dyrt (for alle inkl Tesla sine egne biler å lade til 100%).
For meg personlig passer dette ypperlig da jeg lader så kortvarig som overhodet mulig på langturer, og pga rekkevidde er det stort sett ikke behov for det.

Men for de som trenger 100% av forskjellige grunner (tilhenger, lokasjon, resturantmåltidspause osv), så kan dette øke kostnader kraftig.

Nå anbefaler Tesla at du ikke lader over 80% når det er høy belastning på SuC, etterhvert vil nok dette også bli dyrt. Dynamisk tidsprising har de jo allerede.

Jeg ønsker meg sykt lang rekkevidde som et resultat av denne utviklingen.

[Magnus Hansen]

Mye diskusjon her fra norsk og europeisk perspektiv, men det kan vel hende timingen på dette har mye med kommende subsidier i USA å gjøre

EV charging to receive $7.5 billion in Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal: White House

https://www.teslarati.com/electric-vehicle-charging-7-5-billion-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal-white-house/amp/

[Carboy]

https://elbil.no/slik-skal-tesla-apne-superladerne-sine-for-andre-elbileiere/?fbclid=IwAR1Jv2UFsD6QBfMpmFnjv-l2RIElywacK8NswdSzWnkbVt0upM2MqSBqFmg

[Handyman]

https://elbil.no/slik-skal-tesla-apne-superladerne-sine-for-andre-elbileiere/?fbclid=IwAR1Jv2UFsD6QBfMpmFnjv-l2RIElywacK8NswdSzWnkbVt0upM2MqSBqFmg

Skriv gjerne kort hva som er interessant i artikkelen, i stedet for bare å poste en link. Er det noe nytt her?

[Carboy]

Står alt om hvordan det skal åpnes for andre CCS- merker unntatt pris. Bare å lese i linken :-)
Det er utrolig fint å kunne kjøre f eks en Taycan og lade på supercharger spør du meg. Spent på prisingen, og smart med en prismodell som gjør at folk lader kun nødvendig.
Mitt tips ville være å ha lav pris de første 20 minutter og blodpris etter det.

[turfsurf]

Står alt om hvordan det skal åpnes for andre CCS- merker unntatt pris.

Står jo ikke noe nytt i den artikkelen, og står heller ikke hvordan det skal løses med tanke på parkering / kabler.

Som det er i dag er det ikke så mange biler som kan stå parkert på tiltenkt plass og lade utenom Teslaer.

[turfsurf]

Nå anbefaler Tesla at du ikke lader over 80% når det er høy belastning på SuC, etterhvert vil nok dette også bli dyrt. Dynamisk tidsprising har de jo allerede.

Jeg ønsker meg sykt lang rekkevidde som et resultat av denne utviklingen.

Enig. En av de store fordelene med SuC nettverket er ikke bare en sømløs opplevelse, men og å kunne lade når du vil til en ok pris.

Ønsker uansett ikke å tilpasse stoppene til plasser med lading, eller å styre med å lade hver gang jeg ser en ladestolpe.

[Electric cars in Norway]

Elon har nok en meget god plan på dette det har han alltid. Men vi snakker "Elon time" også her - så  det skjer når det skjer.

[Handyman]

Står alt om hvordan det skal åpnes for andre CCS- merker unntatt pris. Bare å lese i linken :-)
Det er utrolig fint å kunne kjøre f eks en Taycan og lade på supercharger spør du meg. Spent på prisingen, og smart med en prismodell som gjør at folk lader kun nødvendig.
Mitt tips ville være å ha lav pris de første 20 minutter og blodpris etter det.

Det står jo ingeting nytt i artikkelen som ikke har vært diskutert ut og inn her allerede. Det er stor sett spekulasjoner og "klipp og lim" fra Twitter og andre kilder. Inneholder også grov feil..... som at det bare er CCS på V3. CCS er også på V2. Dette arkiverer jeg i click-bait-kategorien.

[automat]

Det står jo ingeting nytt i artikkelen som ikke har vært diskutert ut og inn her allerede. Det er stor sett spekulasjoner og "klipp og lim" fra Twitter og andre kilder. Inneholder også grov feil..... som at det bare er CCS på V3. CCS er også på V2. Dette arkiverer jeg i click-bait-kategorien.

Det står ingenting nytt i artikkelen, men feil er det vel ikke?

V2 har CCS-kontakt, men kommuniserer vel via Tesla-protokoll, ikke CCS-protokoll. I motsetning til V3? V2 kan derfor ikke uten videre åpnes for allmenheten.

Og en ombygging av V2 til fullverdig CCS må gjøres på en måte som ikke skaper problemer for gamle S og X som ikke er CCS-kompatible.

[Counterpointer]

Det trengs en kraftig utbygging om SuC åpnes for flere. Siste uke har jeg på langtur både på Vikeså og Lillesand vært i faresonen for å måtte vente på plass. Det er jo helt utenfor spec .....

Som en observasjon så var det også litt morsomt at jeg kom omtrent samtidig med en Ioniq 5 som sto på Ionity laderen i Lillesand. Når vi hadde ladet fra 20% til 85% og dro videre, hadde han ikke koblet seg til laderen enda. Får meg til å tenke på hvordan det blir når andre folk skal koble seg til og registrere seg selv i Tesla appen. Mye rom for knoting.

[Otkristo]

Interessant innlegg fra sjefen i ladeoperatøren MER, Ole Henrik Hannisdahl.

So is Tesla actually going to open up their supercharger network this time? And if so, will it actually make things better, or worse? If this is your cup of tea, get yourself something to drink and read on:

First, let's take stock. Tesla is in the extremely enviable position of being masters of their own universe. They have full control of the car (HW and SW), the charger (HW, SW and site layout), the proprietary protocol / communication between car and charger, and the app. In sum, this means the user experience is amazing. The in – car nav shows you everything you need to guide you to a charger based on availability and SOC, and the car is pre-conditioned for optimal charging when you arrive. You plug your car in and leave, the app tells you everything you need to know about the charging session while underway, and you're automatically billed at the end of session. It always works, and Tesla can adjust and sort out any problems that arise within their own stack.

The rest of us can only watch with envy from our parallel universe with a multitude of chargers, cars and apps that sort of communicates on supposedly standard protocols such as OCPP and OCPI. So what if we transition from today's multiverse to one unified reality. How will the Tesla universe have to adapt to cope with our universe? Let's start with the big hairy problem first: The cars.

All Teslas have the charging port in the same place. However, the engineers in charge(!) of charge port placement at other OEMs are much, much more creative, and place the ports more or less anywhere on the car: In front, towards the rear, slightly towards the middle, on both sides of the car. The only place I haven't seen a charge port so far is on the roof. This completely breaks the neat and beautiful layout of Tesla charging stations. If you arrive at one of these in, say, a Porsche Taycan or an Audi e-Tron, you will have to park across two bays so that the cable can reach your charging port located behind the front wheel. The lucky Taycan driver can now (probably) exit the car, as the charging port is behind the right front wheel. The e-Tron driver, however, is now in trouble as the charge port is behind the left front wheel, so that the driver's door will bang in to the cable holder, dooming any hope of elegant egress.

The only semi-practical real-world solution to this problem is to retrofit (much) longer charging cables. However, these will no longer fit in to the neat cable holders that Tesla currently use. If they are left on the ground, they will be run over and ruined pretty fast (trust us on this). The best solutions we've seen so far involves flexible pylon holders suspending the cable above the car.

So let's assume Tesla goes to the trouble of redesigning and retrofitting their stations to solve this first physical problem. You've managed to park your e-Tron within the white lines of a parking space, managed to get out of your car, and managed to plug in. This means your car is now talking to the Tesla charging station to try to establish communication over the OCCP protocol.

This protocol is in itself quite good, and not difficult to implement. The problem is the interpretation of it by OEMs on both the car and the charger side, as well as the stuff that's not covered by the protocol. If, for instance, you find yourself at a charger with your BMW i3, some engineer in Munich decided that you have to close your car door to charge. If you arrive with an early edition VW Golf BEV, the car will only accept a charging session if it's started within 15-20 seconds of you plugging the cable in to the car. Failure to comply with this means you have to physically unplug the cable and reattach it before the car will even consider taking power from the charger. The list goes on.

But the upshot is that other cars will not automagically get the superior "plug and charge" experience that Tesla drivers enjoy. Instead, they will be left scratching their heads while trying to figure stuff out, just as they are doing when they're in front of our charging stations for the first time. Tesla actually has a potential advantage here: As they control their own charger firmware and backend, they can implement charger – side fixes (hacks) for car-specific issues much more easily than we can, as we need to involve the charger OEMs in this (who, for some reason, usually don't like hacking their otherwise perfect OCPP implementation in order to fix a problem "created" by some car OEM).

But even if Tesla manages to eliminate some of these issues, they will still face a new reality for customer service. Not only will Tesla's customer service have to become experts on how to charge all the variants of BEVs out there (as our frankly excellent customer service is), but the key metric "number of calls per charging session" will also go up. One solution to this is the "ostrich strategy" commonly employed by large companies such as Microsoft or Apple, where you simply can't contact them and are left to sort out your issue by googling or trying to navigate their support site. However, this strategy rapidly backfires in a high-use charging network, as lines start to form behind frustrated customers who can't figure out how to get charging started. This in turn degrades network throughput. As a consequence, good customer service is a must-have both for customer satisfaction and revenue. For Tesla, this means more people and more training. Fairly easy to solve, but adds cost.

OK, so you're now connected and charging, after having parked, plugged in, downloaded the Tesla app, added your credit card, and potentially called customer service before you managed to start charging from the app. Your car is sipping e-juice at whatever rate it's able to (which challenges Tesla's current kWh – based price model, as slow-charging cars reduce throughput in the network), and you went off to have a burger. You're now full, your car is full, and you're ready to pay. This brings on a new and interesting pain point when you transition from a closed network in to an open service provider: Regulation.

Several countries mandate drop-in charging. Common solutions to this are to let users pay with credit card while using a limited, un-registered version of the app, or by using a payment webpage, mobile payment apps or even SMS payment in some countries. Currently, the Norwegian EV Association and the Norwegian Consumer Council ("Forbrukerrådet") are pushing to make drop-in payment by physically tapping your credit card at the charging station, mandatory for CPOs in Norway. This would mean installing physical card readers and interfaces on all public charging stations. Other EU countries are looking in to mandating other universal solutions such as roaming. Germany already has the infamous "Eichrecht" (which Tesla is already probably subjected to).

While the intention behind all this is (usually) to make life easier for EV drivers, one outcome of "simplification by regulation" means different standards in different countries. This is all very much solvable, but adds complexity and costs for a global player such as Tesla, and warrants a per-market approach to opening up the network, where local regulation becomes a factor.

Tesla has built its charging network as a cost center, to attract customers to the brand and sell more cars. By opening up the network to third party customers, Tesla can further increase brand awareness (while embarrassing other OEMs as their new and shiny BEV models are charging at Tesla), and add another revenue stream to their business. However, this comes at the cost of having to redesign their stations, increased cost and complexity in their SW and app development, increased cost and complexity for customer service, and potential per-market adaptations based on regulation. And not the least, the potential issues with degraded user experience for existing Tesla owners, as well as the reduced advantage of the Tesla charging network to potential customers choosing between a Tesla and another BEV.

Whether the benefits outweigh the costs, remains to be seen. From a strictly business point of view, an open Tesla network is an obvious competitor for us. But overall, their network is largely complementary to ours, and in sum I think the benefits of an open Tesla network outweighs the added competition. The added capacity from the Tesla network will help alleviate traffic peaks, which in my opinion is a great benefit to both EV drivers and the charging industry overall. And while we can't compete with Tesla on their great user experience for Teslas, we look forward to compete with them on our own turf: The messy business that is generic BEV fast charging. Come on, Elon, do it!
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tesla-actually-open-up-sc-network-ole-henrik-hannisdahl

[Counterpointer]

Det trengs en kraftig utbygging om SuC åpnes for flere.........

..........Mye rom for knoting.

Interessant innlegg fra sjefen i ladeoperatøren MER, Ole Henrik Hannisdahl.

So is Tesla actually going to open up their supercharger network this time? And if so, will it actually make things better, or worse?


................Come on, Elon, do it!
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tesla-actually-open-up-sc-network-ole-henrik-hannisdahl

For et detaljert og to the point svar på min post og egentlig hele tråden

Tror dog at oppfordringen til Elon fra Hannisdahl er en smule ironisk.....

[Otkristo]

Det trengs en kraftig utbygging om SuC åpnes for flere.........

..........Mye rom for knoting.

Interessant innlegg fra sjefen i ladeoperatøren MER, Ole Henrik Hannisdahl.

So is Tesla actually going to open up their supercharger network this time? And if so, will it actually make things better, or worse?


................Come on, Elon, do it!
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tesla-actually-open-up-sc-network-ole-henrik-hannisdahl

For et detaljert og to the point svar på min post og egentlig hele tråden

Tror dog at oppfordringen til Elon fra Hannisdahl er en smule ironisk.....

For min del har jeg nok undervurdert Tesla kundeservice i dette senarioet.
Kan bli krevende.
Det virker ikke forlokkende basert på MER sin erfaring