Skrevet av Emne: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?  (Lest 8850 ganger)

mikaelf

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #45 på: tirsdag 17. september 2019, klokken 23:07 »
Jeg har lurt lenge på hvordan er konstruksjon til Tesla's OEM hengerfeste under støtfangeren, men klarte ikke å finne noe på nettet som viser dette :(

Autowinder

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #46 på: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 12:48 »
Det ser mistenkelig likt Westfalia sitt feste: https://youtu.be/ulh282wpqP0
Der er det også skissert festeanordningen i bilen.
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jlan

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #47 på: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 18:03 »
Det er støpt inn "Westfalia" i kroken ja, så det er det ingen tvil om, men festene til bilen er helt forskjellige fra det som vises i videoen. Det er en flat flens mot baksiden av bagasjerommet. Med denne løsningen er det selvsagt viktig hva som er på innsiden, og det ser ganske robust ut:
https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2018/04/Tesla-Model-3-teardown-25.jpg
https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2018/04/Tesla-Model-3-teardown-21.jpg
« Siste redigering: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 22:19 av jlan »
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mikaelf

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #48 på: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 19:34 »
Jeg lurer på om våre pre hengerfeste modeller har samme feste løsning. Om det finnes noe teknisk forskjell som gjør at Teslas OEM festesystem ikke kan ettermonteres.
Et annet spørsmål, om en setter på en tredjepart løsning, vil bilens software erkjenne det ?

ok67

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #49 på: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 21:53 »
Tesla Model 3 AWD-LR
iMiev 2013 som jr. har overtatt

ok67

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #50 på: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 22:15 »
Basert på denne:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDEg9GdMe8c

Vil eg tru at om det er mogeleg å få tak i Westfalia sitt komplette sett så vil monteringa vere tilsvarande EcoHitch. Så kan ikkje forstå anna enn at det bør vere fullt mogeleg å ettermontere det originale model 3 hengarfestet, det står berre på viljen frå Tesla til faktisk å tillate det.
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The_M

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #51 på: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 22:51 »
I don't know how Teslas OEM towbar looks like, but what they show on the kickstarter looks quite weak tbh.
(...)
All loads are on the bolt, not the head of the bolt. Thats a significant factor.

TM3 Towbar from Owners Manual:
I was talking about the tow bar frame, which is what provides structural integrity, not the detachable end piece with the towing ball on it.


Så er det på tide å lære seg norsk. Dette er ett norsk forum.
Trådstarter kommer fra Nederland og utgangspunktet var å samle stemmer til en underskriftskampanje. Skriver på Engelsk av respekt for trådstarter. Regner med de fleste her inne burde være i stand til å beherske det språket også :)

jlan

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #52 på: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 23:22 »
Selve bjelken er i følge merkingen ikke fra Westfalia men fra Horizon Global Americas Inc. som eier Westfalia.

Det ser ikke helt likt ut på min bil som i EcoHitch videoen. Det ser bl.a. ikke ut til å være noen separat "crash support beam".
« Siste redigering: onsdag 18. september 2019, klokken 23:43 av jlan »
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cheesy_09

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #53 på: torsdag 19. september 2019, klokken 07:59 »
I hope the linked initiative will be the solution for us.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/biltec/towbar-towing-hitch-for-tesla-model-3/description

I sent a question to the project if they have any plan to recertify the cars with their solution to be able to tow a trailer legally.

Although I appreciate this initiative, this will, unfortunately not be a solution for everyone. I have in fact explored this option ever since I learned about the German initiative for the Model S.

Statens Vegvesen and basically all other authorities require guarantees from the factory. I know that the German TÜV offers a service where you can "purchase" individual testing. This is valid in Germany on an individual basis. For other countries this is not enough, since they do not accept the TÜV aftermarket approval. It really has to come from the manufacturer. So unless you are willing to export your car to Germany and then import it back, it is not useful to us.

Secondly, is the question about safety. The fact that something is approved as third party option, does not mean that it is safe. The combination of more than 400 horse power and instant torque will without a doubt cause hazardous situations. It is not for no reason that Tesla has a trailer-mode which changes the vehicle dynamics. We need trailer mode, otherwise people might die. Maybe not you, but someone that is a less experienced driver. We do not want this, trust me.

Finally, there is the question about warranty. No one can proof that damages will not occur to the battery or drive train. If something is approved, it does not mean that no damages can happen. If Tesla sees an unofficial trailer hook, it causes a highly unpredictable situation, and I am certain that your warranty is gone. Even if the law in on your side, it is a painful process to go through, and often an endless battle (while you are waiting to have your $7000 battery replaced).

To the people behind the kickstarter campaign (based in Stavanger it seems) I say: I do not see you mentioning any of these risks. I urge you to add these limitations to the campaign. At least mention that it is uncertain that the cars can be certified to legally pull any weight. But also about the risks regarding safety and liability. If you do not do this, you are forcing me to use my network to spread the word myself.

I said it before and I will say it again: this is a marathon and not a sprint.
We need to convince Tesla. We should not want to do this without them. For our own safety and for the integrity of our cars. Yesterday I received a letter from the dutch road authority (RDW) that I am invited for a meeting regarding the case of the trailer hook.
« Siste redigering: torsdag 19. september 2019, klokken 09:45 av cheesy_09 »

Handyman

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #54 på: torsdag 19. september 2019, klokken 09:20 »
I absolutely support your thoughts!
I`m impressed by your initiative, and wish you a lot of luck!
LR AWD, EAP, Aero S/V, VIN 218xxx

The_M

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #55 på: torsdag 19. september 2019, klokken 15:48 »
@cheesy_09: Best of luck!

mikaelf

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #56 på: torsdag 19. september 2019, klokken 22:53 »
I hope the linked initiative will be the solution for us.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/biltec/towbar-towing-hitch-for-tesla-model-3/description

I sent a question to the project if they have any plan to recertify the cars with their solution to be able to tow a trailer legally.

Although I appreciate this initiative, this will, unfortunately not be a solution for everyone. I have in fact explored this option ever since I learned about the German initiative for the Model S.

Statens Vegvesen and basically all other authorities require guarantees from the factory. I know that the German TÜV offers a service where you can "purchase" individual testing. This is valid in Germany on an individual basis. For other countries this is not enough, since they do not accept the TÜV aftermarket approval. It really has to come from the manufacturer. So unless you are willing to export your car to Germany and then import it back, it is not useful to us.

Secondly, is the question about safety. The fact that something is approved as third party option, does not mean that it is safe. The combination of more than 400 horse power and instant torque will without a doubt cause hazardous situations. It is not for no reason that Tesla has a trailer-mode which changes the vehicle dynamics. We need trailer mode, otherwise people might die. Maybe not you, but someone that is a less experienced driver. We do not want this, trust me.

Finally, there is the question about warranty. No one can proof that damages will not occur to the battery or drive train. If something is approved, it does not mean that no damages can happen. If Tesla sees an unofficial trailer hook, it causes a highly unpredictable situation, and I am certain that your warranty is gone. Even if the law in on your side, it is a painful process to go through, and often an endless battle (while you are waiting to have your $7000 battery replaced).

To the people behind the kickstarter campaign (based in Stavanger it seems) I say: I do not see you mentioning any of these risks. I urge you to add these limitations to the campaign. At least mention that it is uncertain that the cars can be certified to legally pull any weight. But also about the risks regarding safety and liability. If you do not do this, you are forcing me to use my network to spread the word myself.

I said it before and I will say it again: this is a marathon and not a sprint.
We need to convince Tesla. We should not want to do this without them. For our own safety and for the integrity of our cars. Yesterday I received a letter from the dutch road authority (RDW) that I am invited for a meeting regarding the case of the trailer hook.

Good to have you back cheesy_09  :) Would you be so kind and update us whether you got any response from Tesla regarding the petition?

cheesy_09

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #57 på: fredag 20. september 2019, klokken 07:54 »
Good to have you back cheesy_09  :) Would you be so kind and update us whether you got any response from Tesla regarding the petition?

Thanks :) No response from Tesla, but that probably does not surprise anyone. Of course that does not change anything for us in our mission. I will send out an update by email probably next week.

Handyman

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sfinxern

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Sv: Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?
« Svar #59 på: fredag 20. september 2019, klokken 10:08 »
It is not for no reason that Tesla has a trailer-mode which changes the vehicle dynamics. We need trailer mode, otherwise people might die. Maybe not you, but someone that is a less experienced driver. We do not want this, trust me.

So what does actually trailer mode do on MX and M3? Does M3 even have trailer mode?
And what would be the safety issues around M3 that already is approved for towing? You think this is trailer mode alone? Because when you see all the rigorous testing that the Model S have been through in Germany, there are alot of them to get the car approved for towing. Its basically the same testing that all other manufacturers go through as well for approving their car for towing. And Model S passed these with ease.

And for the effect of the car, you could say the same for ICE cars aswell. If a ICE car have 500 HP they shouldnt have the possibility to tow then? I dont see this as a valid point at all.

So the question is actually how this avvoid the guarantee on the car since Tesla have not approved MS and earlier M3 for towing.  Same goes for older MX without tow bar aswell.

I see this just as an administrative task for Tesla that they wont bother using resources on. There are just as many in the US that want the towing option for both MS and earlier M3. But in US they can retrofit tow bar legaly - there are noe issues with the law enforcements. The issue is ofcourse if they get into an accident.

But I do agree that the best is to approach Tesla directly, but as many have experienced, and you will aswell, they wont give any feedback to these quaries. Thats why these initiatives is taking form.

I really cant understand why Tesla have not just approved all cars for towing. That would be really beneficial for them as a company - and more people would then get rid of their ICE cars for towing needs and just have one electric car. 
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