Ettermontering hengerfeste ikke mulig?

[GOS]

Good to have you back cheesy_09  Would you be so kind and update us whether you got any response from Tesla regarding the petition?

Thanks No response from Tesla, but that probably does not surprise anyone. Of course that does not change anything for us in our mission. I will send out an update by email probably next week.

Do you or will you chase Tesla regularly for a response? Do you live nearby where you handed over the list and do you have anyone, except receptionists, there you could talk with?

[jlan]

Does M3 even have trailer mode?

Yes, and the most obvious difference is that it prevents use of autosteering. It also changes the response for several safety systems (AEB, ESP, ELDA , TACC ++).  An experienced driver with knowledge of these systems should still be able to select suitable settings and tow a trailer safely without trailer mode. Proving innocence after an accident however may be a different story.

[The_M]

(...) An experienced driver with knowledge of these systems should still be able to select suitable settings and tow a trailer safely without trailer mode. (...)

Sorry, but no. If you fit a tow-bar to a modern car and don't integrate a wiring controller then the car doesn't know that it's fitted with one. You can, in some cars turn off ESP. In others you would need to disable it and that would probably also disable ABS. As modern vehicles doesn't have load reduction valves for the rear brakes and instead rely on the ABS this severely increases the chances of locking up the rear wheels during hard braking. I wouldn't say that qualifies as a safe setting. It's a workaround. If you get into a situation that needs ESP or ABS while having them disabled you're not going to have a good time. If they are on but have no idea you are towing a trailer, they could make things a lot worse.

One important part of most modern ESP is that they have trailer stability control. They will actively try to stop a trailer from fishtailing. This can typically occur if the trailer is loaded badly or catches the wind wrongly. Most drivers don't know how to correct fishtailing and can easily end up making it worse (hence the existence of trailer stability control in the first place).

[jlan]

Well it depends on the use of course. Towing a small, light trailer locally at low speed is very different from going on vacation with a big caravan.

Of course it is best to have trailer mode available and enabled, but the information the car has about the trailer is still very limited, and I don't think we should expect it to correct for bad loading and strong crosswinds.

It would be interesting to know how this is handled with other cars. It seems to be a lot of kits available that "anybody" can install legally without anything being checked.

[ok67]

Trailer mode on my previous car, an Opel Insignia didn't do much.
The turn signal changed from 3 flashes to 6 flashes when partly engaged. And the car checked for faulty lights on the trailer. It might made some changes to the ABS/ESP, but nothing that I ever noticed.

[cheesy_09]

It is not for no reason that Tesla has a trailer-mode which changes the vehicle dynamics. We need trailer mode, otherwise people might die. Maybe not you, but someone that is a less experienced driver. We do not want this, trust me.

So what does actually trailer mode do on MX and M3? Does M3 even have trailer mode?
And what would be the safety issues around M3 that already is approved for towing? You think this is trailer mode alone? Because when you see all the rigorous testing that the Model S have been through in Germany, there are alot of them to get the car approved for towing. Its basically the same testing that all other manufacturers go through as well for approving their car for towing. And Model S passed these with ease.

And for the effect of the car, you could say the same for ICE cars aswell. If a ICE car have 500 HP they shouldnt have the possibility to tow then? I dont see this as a valid point at all.

So the question is actually how this avvoid the guarantee on the car since Tesla have not approved MS and earlier M3 for towing.  Same goes for older MX without tow bar aswell.

I see this just as an administrative task for Tesla that they wont bother using resources on. There are just as many in the US that want the towing option for both MS and earlier M3. But in US they can retrofit tow bar legaly - there are noe issues with the law enforcements. The issue is ofcourse if they get into an accident.

But I do agree that the best is to approach Tesla directly, but as many have experienced, and you will aswell, they wont give any feedback to these quaries. Thats why these initiatives is taking form.

I really cant understand why Tesla have not just approved all cars for towing. That would be really beneficial for them as a company - and more people would then get rid of their ICE cars for towing needs and just have one electric car.

I agree with your views. I see that most of your questions have been answered by others, to which I agree. In my full-time job I work with improving vehicle dynamics basically every day. I know the relevance, and for this reason I choose not contribute to a work-around that does not adhere a minimum level of safety. In this case a trailer-aware stability program. If we are successful in the campaign, and later find out that someone died due to trailer instability, I will not be able to sleep at night. My kids will be sharing the same road as these cars, so for me it is a very valid point :-)

[sfinxern]

Well if that take away your night sleep, think about all those old cars out there towing heavy load without having ESP or even ABS.

There shouldnt really be a issue to approve modern cars like Tesla for towing. Well, they actually all can, except Model S.

[Toalmar]

Good to have you back cheesy_09  Would you be so kind and update us whether you got any response from Tesla regarding the petition?

Thanks No response from Tesla, but that probably does not surprise anyone. Of course that does not change anything for us in our mission. I will send out an update by email probably next week.

Any news about the petition or?

[rscheff]

Jeg lurer på om våre pre hengerfeste modeller har samme feste løsning. Om det finnes noe teknisk forskjell som gjør at Teslas OEM festesystem ikke kan ettermonteres.
Et annet spørsmål, om en setter på en tredjepart løsning, vil bilens software erkjenne det ?

Hi,

  first, sorry this this post is in english and not norwegian (but you'd probably wouldn't want to read google translate butchered norwegian - just as we in TFF are fine with english for non-native german speakers ).

  Second, on epc.tesla.com, there is a drawing for the trailer hitch crossmember.



This replace the regular, mechanical rear bumper - just like in most trailer hitch solutions I've seen. Thus that cross member must have passed the testing for rear-impacts, and is mounted to the longitudinal beams. The only downgrade is the omission of the aluminium shock absorbers, which are fitted between the chassis and the normal rear bumper. As the later is made from aluminium, and the trailer cross member from steel, the loads are no concern at all, but in a rear crash passengers might be exposed to higher peak loads due to the higher rigidity and stiffness of the trailer cross member...

Next, I recently confirmed that even european M 3 with a homologation number ending in *00, and a VIN as low as 2005xx already have the necessary wiring installed with the 3-pin connector for the Trailer ECU.

Also, enabling of the Trailer mode itself is not simply coupled to the presence of the Trailer ECU, but Tesla also has to set the relevant flag in their central vehicle config database. There was at least one M 3 delivered, compliang about faulty trailer signals - when that car was not fitted with the Trailer ECU, or ordered with it. (It also was delivered with the old Diffusor plate, not having the cut-out for the trailer.

Aftermarket bike-rack hitches have a electronics box, which ties in directly with the CAN bus somewhere in the front drivers foot area - passively scanning the CAN traffic for the light signals. So these aftermarket solutions will definitely lack any kind of two-way communication which the OEM trailer ECU has.

Finally, also visible from epc.tesla.com (where all tesla owners can actually log in with their tesla credentials; the country does not stay saved, but the available parts and drawings will change), there was a recent change related to these trailer-relevant parts.

The trailer cross member is now marked as "over the counter" which means, any Bodyshop (and anyone) "should" be able to buy this part. The Trailer ECU, trailer cable, and the tow hitch itself (identical to the aftermarked ball from westfalia for an Audi A5 Avant IIRC) remain marked as "VIN only".

The SeC down here is the german speaking areas are extremely strict in enforcing the Tesla policy of not selling any of these parts for a car that was not "fabricated" with a trailer.

Also, cars not sold with a trailer (but you all know that), even with homologation *04, do not carry a tow-capacity still (Tesla even goes as far as changing the type code between cars ordered with trailer hitch and those without).

Last, most countries still allow a singular, one-off approval for trailer hitches - especially with the original OEM parts. Some may require an expert witness to provide a formal paper, approving that modification. More costly than just a paper qualification, but certainly within the range of 2x the cost of ordering the trailer with the car.


On this note - asking for a friend: Who here would be willing to see the availability of these parts in Norwegian Bodyshops or Service Centers (the Tesla organization may not be as stict in enforcing the above mentioned rule up there)...

Best regards,
   Richard

[GOS]

@rscheff

I certainly will if that could give me and approved trailer hitch on my February 2019 delivered Model 3

[znkr]

Me too.

So with the wires in place and the availability of these parts it all really boils down to the paperwork?

[offpist]

Me too.

So with the wires in place and the availability of these parts it all really boils down to the paperwork?

Yes.
I allready did the installation.
Its plug'n play really.

[mikaelf]

Me too.

So with the wires in place and the availability of these parts it all really boils down to the paperwork?

Yes.
I allready did the installation.
Its plug'n play really.

@offpist
Exciting! Have your car detected the connected trailer and reacted in any way?

[rscheff]

Since we have at least one positive proof that retrofiting with the OEM parts is very straight forward (and nothing else is being done before delivery - except that Tesla provides two different sets of paperwork, depending if the trailer hitch was installed or not), I created this "petition" over on MoreTesla.com.

There were about 2000 people interested just in Germany, Switzerland and Austria in the Middle of 2019, for a
retrofit option for cars that were bought and delivered before the trailer hitch was ever orderable. Also, about 800 People signed across NL, NO, DE, AT, CH (and whereever more Cheesy_9 went) within 48 hours to ask for this.

However, even people buying their Model 3 after ~May 2019 are in the same boat - as the paperwork provided by Tesla does not allow a retrofit to be performed easy and legally. (even with the OEM parts, one would have to get a vehicle-specific exempt, and jump through a lot more paperwork hurdles, than if Tesla would provide the required documentation as a complete set - including the database flag to enable the trailer mode on the recently updated vehicle).

I created this request at https://moretesla.com/hardware/DzZEVw9cqRZW91RPumKI since it is known that a number of suggestions first made public there, actually made it into (software) functionality later on released to us all...

So, please, everyone who has not bought a Model 3 with trailer hitch, and can not afford to sell it and re-buy the same configuration car with the trailer option, please upvote this request.

Thank you very much!

[mikaelf]

  signing it right now