Sitat fra: Damir på onsdag 11. august 2021, klokken 10:41
So, there is nothing that can be physically done?
Battery dead, even if it has 180 km range?

I would call it "beyond economical repair". A said before, there are "no user serviceable parts inside".
Unfortunately, the battery manufacturer is not very cooperative when it comes to repair options for end users and would require you to send your battery to their premises in switzerland at your expense.

Jens

btw.: same situation here

Sitat fra: Damir på lørdag 07. august 2021, klokken 14:48
Thanks. So, there is nothing to do physically nor via the diagnostic tool that could prevent another internal ISO fault from happening?

Basically correct. Bear in mind, that ISO fault detection is just measuring the current flowing between the casing and either of the battery poles and comparing it to a predefined limit. So a R_iso calculated from this measurement of - for example - 580kOhms is fine, while 56kOhms are bad and trigger an internal ISO fault. The battery itself cannot be internally inspected without destroying the casing, so its extremely difficult to find out about cause and effect.

br, Jens   

ZEBRA batteries lose at least 2°C per hour when idle or charging. The DC heater is fed from the battery itself and compensates this loss, but discharges the battery. The AC heater is active whenever the car is connected to mains and is also used to heat up the battery from ambient. In the operating temperature range the AC heater is capable of rising the battery temperature by at least 6°C per hour. The "time elapsed.." fault is probably a leftover from the heating-up process (took longer than 22hrs to get above 200°C).
Beware of resetting internal Iso faults: apart from possibly being an electrical hazard, some ZEBRAs with this condition have in the past spontaneously discharged their contents as white powder.
I have encountered a transient internal Iso fault with my battery too and have chosen to freeze it. 

br, Jens
   

Hej,

I thought so, too, but: I have just witnessed the BMI of my battery _intentionally_ switching its internal AC supply off and on while in balancing mode. The status display in ZebraMonitor looked exactly the same.
So I would check first if this state persists, and check also the "AC switch" and "AC relay" status as well as the "diagnostic faults" and "last 20 errors" pages to get the bigger picture.

btw.: my battery (and car) is up and running again, albeit with a non-working dc heater, which is a bit of a pain to manage.

Rgds, Jens   

Hej, BauDemo

Have a look at the first error list from ZM which jonandse did upload on May 14th.:
- TBat is reported as below 210 degC,
- Heater timeout is reported (according to the old BMI error list this error is thrown when AC heater is on for more than 22 hrs and temp is still below 200 degC), 
- no "switch off" category error (internal ISO fault or the like) is active (these could be expected to shut down the heater circuits),
- the temperature sensors are _not_ reported as faulty. So I would trust also the temperature readings shown earlier.

In my view this leaves few other possibilites apart from a persistent AC heater malfunction. And as long as the battery doesn't get heated up properly, everything else comes second.

btw.: I have seen my Gen0 PCU throwing a "shutdown fault" on Msg 310h once in a while without any further detectable consequences.

Regards, Jens

In my understanding the main issue is the non-working AC Heater. Anything else showing up could be disregarded for the time being. You might want to check the "Monitoring / temperature" and Battery parameters" sub-pages in ZEBRAmonitor (and others, too) for some additional heater status data extracted in interactive mode, which are not available in the normal broadcast on the CAN bus.

I resurrected my spare BMI the other day. As Orla described, AC heater power is controlled via a mechanical relay switch for safety (also used for BMI internal supply) and an additional "solid state switch" (SCR or TRIAC) for power control via pulse width modulation. Unfortunately the BMI does not report the actual AC current, only actual PWM %, and I am not sure if that reading is conclusive.

The only way to check the heater contacts directly would be to detach the BMI _carefully_ from the battery case at the so-called "flange". In theory you could also exchange it with another (tested) BMI.

my € 0,02
Jens

 
       

Hej,
no its obviously my turn to change the PCU (Gen0). I've got a spare PCU from another car but now I've learned that I also have to reprogram it in order to tie it to the immobilizer system (PATS/VCU).
Questions:
- how is the exact procedure?
- do I have to use Think Techcenter S/W for that or are there alternative ways?
- if TechCenter is required, has anyone an OMITEC adapter for hire / sale?
Thanks in advance,
Jens   

Hi,

some days ago the DC heater in the ZEBRA battery of my Th!nk stopped working. The AC heater still works. ZEBRA Monitor shows "DC heater error" intermittently. The battery is relatively new (900 operating days, some 4000 km driven, no dead cells) and the BMI SW Version is 3.12.12. Any ideas about root cause or repair possibilities?

Many thanks in advance,
Jens

 

Vurderer at omdanne inntaket i bilen til type 2 i stedet for at lede efter Lewden-stik. Har nogen gjort det og kan give tips?

Tak for svar,
Jens

I have a dead ZEBRA battery (internal ISO fault) which I would now like to get rid of.
So I would like to hear about your experiences in this area. I have been told, that FZSonick accepts returned batteries, but I wonder if there are other ways available.
I will also need to handle the battery. Maybe someone has a proven design for the lifting gear he would like to share?

Thanks in advance for your input,
Jens     

Hej,

my € 0,02:
Q1: you would need to connect pins 11, 3 and also 9 (EPO) to 12VDC. See also evmonitor.info, blog entry dated feb 5th for a schematic for stand alone operation,
Q3: the BMI starts to send some data on its own when powered up (CAN Ids 23, 302..30F),
Q5: AFAIK, the BMI is not paired with the car, but with the actual battery (SoC, health status etc.).

hope this helps
br,
Jens

Thanks a lot Pexic,
after setting the range the tool worked fine. Now I'm drowning in data 

Regards,
Jens

Hi all,

the information shared here about troubleshooting Enerdel batteries is really instructive. So maybe one of the Enerdel specialists here is able to enlighten me:
I've been asked to help with the diagnosis of battery issues on a small fleet of lithium-equipped Th!nks. So I installed Commtool (v3.08) on my diagnosis gear and tried it on 2 cars on the vehicle CAN bus, but could only receive raw data. I tried a few of the provided .MSF files, but got only "no data received" messages. As far as CAN messages sent only on the internal bus are concerned, this is as expected, but I wonder if Commtool is any good at all on the vehicle CAN bus. Or do I miss something?
Unfortunately, the documentation from Enerdel I could retrieve, is rather vague in this respect.
For example I could not find a list of CAN messages sent by the MLEC on the external bus yet. 

Thanks in advance and best regards,
Jens

   

Just guessing, but I would suspect some resonance phenomenon between transformer and the AC line input filter within the PCU. I've seen 2 of these filter PCBs (from Gen0 and Gen1) damaged beyond repair by severe arcing back in 2014/15 (had photos posted here, but can't find them right now). I wondered then, what could trigger such arcing, but toggling the transformer instead of soft-starting would be a plausible candidate.
I could think of 2 tests to gather more insights:
- connect the transformer secondary to a robust load (lamp, resistor etc.) and check power-on behaviour with an oscilloscope.
- bypass the transformer and connect the AC input of the PCU directly to the grid (of course taking extra care of possible ground faults and live voltages within the car), then check behaviour at power-on.

Regards,
Jens 

Zebra-BMS kan sandsynligvis ikke bruges videre pga for store forskeller mellem ZEBRA og Lithium. Måske er det muligt at benytte et Leaf-BMS sammen med en "translation device" som oversætter mellem Think-CAN og Leaf-CAN.

Jens