Elbilforum.no

Bilmerker => Tidlige elbiler: Think => "Nye" TH!NK City produsert fra 2008 - 2012 => Emne startet av: Damir på Lørdag 30. Januar 2021, klokken 17:39

Tittel: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirLørdag 30. Januar 2021, klokken 17:39
Hello,

I have just bought a Th!nk City 2010 car with a Zebra battery.
The previous owner stated that the car won't take charge.
The car hasn't been charged for, at least, a year.

First thing I tried is to charge the 12V battery for a couple of days. Everything worked as supposed to (lights, horn, mirrors, radio, wipers etc.), however the "power limit" was blinking and the red triangle was lit all the time. When I plugged in the original charger, the external power supply indicator on top of the dashboard (the right one) lit up and the left one was blinking. The "car link" diod on the charger was blinking. The red triangle on the dashboard remained lit. No other warning lamp is lit.

I have bought a brand new Varta B18 12V battery and replaced it. The symptoms remained the same as with the old battery. I have connected a multimeter to a 12V socket and it shows 12.0V. When I turn the lights on and the fan to the maximum (nothing else), it shows 11.6V. When I connect the car to a charger, it says 12.5V. When I turn the ignition key, the charge level gauge slowly raise to 35%.

I have no PCAN device, so at the moment I am not able to provide with more information.
Can you recommend a cheap one I could get, perhaps somewhere online?
Or I could borrow one from the local mechanics.

I am located in Serbia, unfortunately we don't have EV mechanics yet anywhere around.

Any of your help will be much appreciated.


Damir
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: worryTirsdag 02. Februar 2021, klokken 08:29
Hi,
Sorry, but this forum have been rather quiet lately. I'm not able to help, but did you try the FB forum The Think-Tank?
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: VWspiritTirsdag 02. Februar 2021, klokken 18:56
You’r zebra battery is death.... only fix is replasement battery.
Build a new one from a leaf-battery
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirTorsdag 04. Februar 2021, klokken 21:21
Hi,
Sorry, but this forum have been rather quiet lately. I'm not able to help, but did you try the FB forum The Think-Tank?

Yeah, I'm a following that page.
Guess I'll find some answers there, thanks.


You’r zebra battery is death.... only fix is replasement battery.
Build a new one from a leaf-battery

That's what I was afraid of.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirTorsdag 04. Februar 2021, klokken 22:28
You’r zebra battery is death.... only fix is replasement battery.
Build a new one from a leaf-battery

What would I need in order to make the Th!nk work with the Leaf battery?
Same question if I stumble upon a Li-Ion battery.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: VWspiritſøndag 07. Februar 2021, klokken 20:57
Depends on the pcu. If it’s gen 2 then it’s almost plug and play. You only need to change the high voltage cabe.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirFredag 12. Februar 2021, klokken 08:14
Depends on the pcu. If it’s gen 2 then it’s almost plug and play. You only need to change the high voltage cabe.

How to find out?
The car is 2010.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: pexicFredag 12. Februar 2021, klokken 08:19
You can use CHAS software to find out, read here on this forum (using google translate) how to connect a laptop to the "serial" plug located under the fuses. good luck!
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirTorsdag 18. Februar 2021, klokken 09:37
Here is the diagnostic result:

(http://prevozautomobila.com/think-city-bosch.jpg)

Also, it is attached to this post.


So, what would be the best possible solution to go with next?
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirLørdag 20. Februar 2021, klokken 14:35
Can you tell if this is a GEN2 version?
Would it be easy to swap it to Li-Ion battery?
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: worryſøndag 21. Februar 2021, klokken 22:39
This diagnose does not tell anything. It seems to be a CAN fault, but might also be due to a non compatible test equipment.
To see if your City is GEN2 check here: http://elbilwiki.no/index.php/Ny-Think

GEN2 starts from VIN 5373
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirMandag 22. Februar 2021, klokken 22:58
Seems like mine is GEN1 - VIN is U005019
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirLørdag 31. Juli 2021, klokken 20:16
UPDATE after 4 months:

Well, I have managed to get the PCAN adapter, installed Oracle VM on my laptop and ZebraMonitor on it. The Internal ISO and AC heater faults have been listed, which I deleted. The car started heating up the battery and eventually started charging up. I was happy like a small child. Have been driven it since then for 4.000 km with no problems.

Just the other day, all of a sudden, the car wouldn't run: red triangle lit, power limit blinking, don't won't to take a charge. Since I have borrowed the PCAN adapter the first time, I have had to get me another one. It took me two weeks to finally get it. Now ZebraMonitor shows the same faults like last time. I have deleted them again and the car started heating up the battery, hopefully will take the charge once it reaches the temperature. BMI SW is 3.12.12.

What is AC heater?
What is DC heater?
How could I sort out this problem once and forever?


Many thanks


EDIT: I have always paid attention to start charging when the battery was around 10% and then charging it all the way up to 100% (every 3rd day). I was getting 180 km of range on full charge, but most of the time I was getting around 140 km in a 3-day period.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: BauDemoMandag 02. August 2021, klokken 21:03
I would not wait for the battery to get to 10% to start charging, and would start the charging much above that - say 30%.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirOnsdag 04. August 2021, klokken 23:29
This is exactly what I was thinking about.
Also, charging it over 80% only when really needed, would might be a good idea as well.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirOnsdag 04. August 2021, klokken 23:35
The car runs fine again.

I just hooked it up to the ZebraMonitor and there was only notice fault "Time max elapsed while AC heat", with the same date when I was re-heating the battery.

The AC heater is the heater for the battery?
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: jurFredag 06. August 2021, klokken 00:23
ZEBRA batteries lose at least 2°C per hour when idle or charging. The DC heater is fed from the battery itself and compensates this loss, but discharges the battery. The AC heater is active whenever the car is connected to mains and is also used to heat up the battery from ambient. In the operating temperature range the AC heater is capable of rising the battery temperature by at least 6°C per hour. The "time elapsed.." fault is probably a leftover from the heating-up process (took longer than 22hrs to get above 200°C).
Beware of resetting internal Iso faults: apart from possibly being an electrical hazard, some ZEBRAs with this condition have in the past spontaneously discharged their contents as white powder.
I have encountered a transient internal Iso fault with my battery too and have chosen to freeze it. 

br, Jens
   
 
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirLørdag 07. August 2021, klokken 14:48
Thanks. So, there is nothing to do physically nor via the diagnostic tool that could prevent another internal ISO fault from happening?
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirTirsdag 10. August 2021, klokken 20:29
If I understood correctly, the Internal ISO fault occurs when the cells shorten out inside the battery?
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: Orla PedersenOnsdag 11. August 2021, klokken 08:38
If I understood correctly, the Internal ISO fault occurs when the cells shorten out inside the battery?
Not quite right. Internal ISO fault is electrical leakage to the casing that contains the cells.
Internal Shorted cells is another matter.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirOnsdag 11. August 2021, klokken 10:41
So, there is nothing that can be physically done?
Battery dead, even if it has 180 km range?
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: jurOnsdag 11. August 2021, klokken 10:47
Thanks. So, there is nothing to do physically nor via the diagnostic tool that could prevent another internal ISO fault from happening?
Basically correct. Bear in mind, that ISO fault detection is just measuring the current flowing between the casing and either of the battery poles and comparing it to a predefined limit. So a Riso calculated from this measurement of - for example - 580kOhms is fine, while 56kOhms are bad and trigger an internal ISO fault. The battery itself cannot be internally inspected without destroying the casing, so its extremely difficult to find out about cause and effect.

br, Jens   
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: jurOnsdag 11. August 2021, klokken 11:02
So, there is nothing that can be physically done?
Battery dead, even if it has 180 km range?
I would call it "beyond economical repair". A said before, there are "no user serviceable parts inside".
Unfortunately, the battery manufacturer is not very cooperative when it comes to repair options for end users and would require you to send your battery to their premises in switzerland at your expense.

Jens

btw.: same situation here
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: BauDemoOnsdag 11. August 2021, klokken 11:54
I remember seeing someone opened the battery up and then tried replacing cells and then tried closing it ... and then another error, and another, and another... I think they gave up after couple of months, and hundreds of hours of work.
Tittel: Sv: Zebra battery, red triangle, power limit blinking, you know - the usual stuff
Skrevet av: DamirOnsdag 11. August 2021, klokken 14:51
The battery seems as well-thought project.
It's really a shame they stopped developing it.