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Bilmerker => Tidlige elbiler: Think => "Nye" TH!NK City produsert fra 2008 - 2012 => Emne startet av: pexic på tirsdag 23. april 2019, klokken 15:56

Tittel: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictirsdag 23. april 2019, klokken 15:56
Hello friends

I finnaly manage to remove the Energel battery from my Think
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I have to check it since I have to know if it can be repaired or replaced or...who knows.

I have to mention that, at this moment, I don't have the possibility to diagnose the car/battery but I'll read the forum and maybe I would manage to do that.

First impressions :

Some moisture shadow but nothing important as far I can see:
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Someone tried to repair the battery, some inside plastic screws are missing.
One of the 16 modules was replaced (see pcitures) also on this module the multi DIP-switch has a different configuration (see pictures).
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I've made some measurement to see if the cells can be saved or not, it seems that we are ok on this, all modules have exactly 43,5V except the "replaced" one who has 44,3V (see picture).
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Now I'm decided to diagnose the battery.

The car is not charging, however it connects ok to the 220V home network (power led is red and can bus led is blinking green)
These errors are reported in dash :
-red battery led is on (insufficient charge in 12V battery) -> but the battery is fully charged)
-limited power triagle is blinking
-warning lamp for low battery blinks rapidly

Thanks a lot in advance for your feedbacks/advices.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiconsdag 24. april 2019, klokken 12:07
More details to better understand this error:

These are the flashing lights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8Cjk9WJd5s

These are the central console leds:
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This is the sound of Enerdel pack relays when the ignition is ON :
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Thanks for your attention.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiconsdag 24. april 2019, klokken 18:19
Hi
any Idea what this plug is for ? (it is under the fuse panel)
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thank you in advance!
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: worryonsdag 24. april 2019, klokken 22:01
Hi,
You seem to have been lucky with your battery. But you really need to diagnose it. Even if each block has reasonable voltage, some cellpairs of the block could be bad anyway. That means the other ones could have too high voltage.
Your RLEC-cards looks ok on the photos. Those are hard to find if something is wrong. Again, a diagnose can tell. The dip-switch settings means nothing in the Think pack. RLEC-addresses is set in the card software, as I have understood.
I've just started looking into diagnose, so I have little to share.
Good luck, and keep us posted.  :)
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictorsdag 25. april 2019, klokken 11:02
Thank you Worry !
At this moment I've ordered an OBD to serial cable but it will take some time to arrive (aliexpress)
Also some friend told me that, for FORD cards, I can use an standard ELM OBD USB adaper (which I have) in order to sniff the CAN dialog - using a free software called  "ELMConfig"
Today I'll try to see if my setup will be able to read CAN messages.
Of course I'll post here all the info (including pictures) for other people who (like my self) will find those very usefull.
Sorry for the very big pictures of my posts, I don't figure out yet how this forum can show only preview pictures before click on them... all setting are in Norvegian :) but this will not stop me.
Have a nice day!

Viorel
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemotorsdag 25. april 2019, klokken 12:20
The cable under the dash is a diagnostic/firmware update connector for the PCU (the drive for the motor).

To diagnose the battery you need Enerdel specific diagnostic tool called ComTool, and it runs with a P-CAN adapter.

Checkout the software download section on the think yahoo group - https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/think_ev

Also there see the wiring diagrams for the car.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictorsdag 25. april 2019, klokken 13:40
Hi BauDemo

Thanks for the info.

L.E. the link to the software from yahoo group is dead but I've asked few users to FW the software to my inbox, maybe they will do that.

regarding ELM OBD I found out that I need to make some hardware modifications to the adapter in order to read Ford specific data  (https://www.jamessimpson.co.uk/elmconfig-enable-ford-ecu-functions/)
I'll keep you posted if this method will be successfully or not.

Regards

Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictorsdag 25. april 2019, klokken 21:09
I found the software/documentations .zip file (400MB) - Who need it -> just ask for it by email plastic4pexic@yahoo.com.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemotorsdag 25. april 2019, klokken 21:10
There is nothing on pins 11 and 3 on the diagnostic connector on my car. How would you expect this ELM Config to work?
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 26. april 2019, klokken 10:12
There is nothing on pins 11 and 3 on the diagnostic connector on my car. How would you expect this ELM Config to work?

 :+1: fair enough, I owe you few hours of work  :)

Also I've noticed the missing of "battery reset" button (next to OBD connector) is this normal ?

Now I have to make an OBD to Serial cable for Comtool, any advices ?

Thank you!
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemofredag 26. april 2019, klokken 11:23
Cool - feel free to use "pay forward" for the hours :)
Your Think has Enerdel battery and the reset button is pointless. Check the electrical wiring diagram and you will see.
You can not easily make the cable for Comtool - if I remember correctly the program is looking for P-CAN or Vector CAN bus adapters. So you can save your time and buy
https://www.peak-system.com/PCAN-USB.199.0.html?&L=1 (https://www.peak-system.com/PCAN-USB.199.0.html?&L=1)

You can make a cable for the CHAS (the program for the PCU) to connect to the 4 pin connector under the passenger side dash. Lookup the pins on the electrical wiring diagram - it was very easy. You would need a usb to rs232 adapter if you do not have rs232 on your computer.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 26. april 2019, klokken 18:01
Thanks again BauDemo
I'll order Peak cable and meanwhile I'll build the second one (SIADIS as far I remember) for the PCU since for this one I have all the hardware in the garage.
I've performed an "HV isolation" check (thanks Catalin for advice) but nothing wrong was found.

I'll keep you posted guys!

P.S. for any kind of payment I strongly recommend an Revolut (.com) account ;)
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiconsdag 01. mai 2019, klokken 18:50
Hello firends

While I'm waiting for the PEAK PCAN-USB adapter I have removed one (two) battery module, I only found some rust traces but nothing wrong in rest, I've checked each li-ion element and all of them show 3.65V on the multimeter.
Here are the pictures:

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Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiconsdag 01. mai 2019, klokken 18:53
Also I've checked if my LTO cells fit well in these boxes and yes, they fit perfectly - 28 pieces LTO prismatic 30Ah cells per box.
After some calculations this means approx 16Kwh in total (versus 28Kwh Enerdel) -> approx 90km range.
But with some important advantages, two examples:
-same range in winter (no heat for battery needed)
-possibility of huge fast charge rate (max 150kw in theory)

Have a nice weekend!
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 10. mai 2019, klokken 11:35
Hello friends!

It seems that I have, at least, one defective RLEC board.
I've also noticed some strange values during the tests and I've marked those in red color.
Please look at the pictures and tell me your precious feedback.
Meantime I'll search for "non defective car - can data"..I think I saw something like this but I don't remember where ...
Have a nice day!
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Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 10. mai 2019, klokken 13:20
Me again

Some more info about RLEC here : http://www.metricmind.com/audi/21-rlec.htm

I've also noticed that I have another RLEC board that is very hot comparing to the rest of them so, for now, I have to buy 2 RLEC boards, If someone knows from where I can buy those please tell me.

Thank you very much in advance !
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: mohpetfredag 10. mai 2019, klokken 18:25
I would check with Elbilmek.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiclørdag 11. mai 2019, klokken 19:14
Thank you Mohpet!!!

Meanwhile I have a small idea (small for now) :
Let's assume that RLEC board is still partially functional, only some smd transistors are fried (as I saw in all other bad RLECs stories on the net).
What if...it would be possible to fool the RLEC boards by connecting all Analog_to_Digital inputs of MC908GZ32VFAE (all the inputs used for measuring the cells voltage) to one single source of voltage.
Meaning : this CPU measure all 12 cells, there are problems between some cells and respective A/D input of CPU, disconnect all A/D inputs used to measured those12 cells and connect these intputs-together- to one single voltage -let's say 3.5V.
This way that specific RLEC board will report to MLEC that all 12 cells have 3.5V.

Don't know if this will be possible but, using an separate and independent BMS, it will be possible to change the cells type - to use Leaf cells for example, or any other type of cells as long the respective cell pack will have  30...49V.

The big problem of this "hack" is : there are 24 A/D channels needed to measure 12 cells  temp + voltage and this CPU only have 16 pins for A/D inputs... so, most probably the measurements are multiplexed : external circuits connects at high speed different thermistors/cells to the same A/D input pin. If the temperature and voltage to be measured are mixed -> ...fail. If the voltages and temperatures use different input pins -> there is hope :)

We will see, I will start measurement on one good RLED, let's hope for the best.

Last chance -in my case- is to start to learn arduino/Rpi/whatever programming  :))

Have a nice weekend Th!nkers ;) and thanks again Mohpet.

p.s. sorry for my English.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicsøndag 12. mai 2019, klokken 20:36
Hi friends

What I found out by now (see pictures):
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All cells voltages measurements reach U1 integrated circuit ( INA 148  +/-200v common-mode voltage difference amplifier ) at pins nr 2 and 3.
At the U1 output is one resistor (R20) then one of the inputs of U2 (pin nr 13).
U2 is an analog multiplexer (MC74HC4051A) and mix also some other values that needs to be measured by the CPU. But all cell voltages are sent by this- pin13- input to his output (pin3) and then to A/D pin 24 input of the CPU (CPU is U6).

So, I removed R20 and I injected a fixed voltage to U2-pin13 input.
This was done by connecting an 100k potentiometer on the back of the board. This was connected to +5V and GND also (after D4 and D3 were removed).
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The result was : RLEC is reporting same voltage for all 12 cells.
RLEC 04 voltages before modification:
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RLEC 04 voltages after modification:
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All good so far but work is not done on this part, next days I have to connect the first cell directly to U2-pin13 so RLEC report voltages more close to reality.
Also the top balance feature was lost and it must be replaced by another stand alone BMS ( more work but an stand alone BMS is cheap and easy to "install".

Okeey, having no more 0V cell voltage reported I start to check the car behaviour:

Now the car is charging, both batteries in fact ( the 12V battery is also charging in parallel with the Enerdel battery)
No errors are displayed in dash during charging.

Ignition On :  only two red leds are displayed in dash now :
red 12V battery led and
red wrench led.
Car does not start do these errors.

This 12V battery red led -> don't know why is still on... the 12V battery is charging to maximum 13,11V according to CAN (13,4V according to multimeter)


I will attach more test results pictures from Comtool maybe someone will notice other strange data.

Also - if someone will try this ugly RLEC hack described by me please REMOVE all the burned smd components from the board before start those modifications!

Thank you in advance for your help, see you soon.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicsøndag 12. mai 2019, klokken 20:47
Amd here are the test results after hack:
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Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemomandag 13. mai 2019, klokken 09:27
RLEC 03 does not seem to be healthy...
and it could be the reason for the car not wanting to start.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: worrymandag 13. mai 2019, klokken 11:28
This is really good work pexic!
I don't understand much of what you explain here, but you seem to understand a lot of the logic on the rlec. Keep up, and please tell us about what you find. Thank you.  :+1:
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicmandag 13. mai 2019, klokken 11:40
Hi BauDemo & Worry

RLEC03 has received the same hack as RLEC04 now, car simptoms are the same :(

I have replaced the potentiometer with one resistor to ground (22k...47k) and I have connected the first +Cell to U2 pin13.
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Now the RLECs (03 and 04) are reporting that all 12 cells of them have the voltage of the first cell of each one.

For example : if RLEC03 first cell has 3.3V -> RLEC03 will report to MLEC that all his 12 cells have 3.3V.

This way the info/voltages is/are more close to reality.

Next step is to see what the .. is this 12V battery error:)

With ignition=off (key removed) only 25mA are drawn from the 12V battery.
With ignition=on and all accessories OFF there are 4.2A drawn from the 12V battery , is this normal ?
Don't know for sure but it seems wrong for me so now I intend to remove all fuses, one by one, and check where those 4,2A are directed.
I don't think the PCU unit needs so much current but who knows ? if someone can make this test on a good car please tell me the cost :)

On the good side - my Enerdel battery is fully charged now :)

I'll keep you posted, see you soon
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemomandag 13. mai 2019, klokken 12:31
The Enerdel battery pack uses approx 3-4A when contactors are closed.

Check the fault codes reported by the PCU via CHAS.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiconsdag 15. mai 2019, klokken 19:11
Hello friends

I need your help again, as usual :)

I use this schematic to make a serial cable in order to use CHAS software.
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Please confirm if this info is accurate.
The CHAS software report: no communication
I've tried under WindowsXP on two computers:
1- Laptop with serial to usb chinese adaptor (CH340)
2-Computer with COM port
I always used "COM1".

-> no communication at all - like the PCU is dead ...

I really hope is not dead , how can I check ? Is this above info/picture accurate ?

Thanks in advance for your help
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemotorsdag 16. mai 2019, klokken 18:20
Did you read the documentation? You need to go through the setup button every time you start CHAS.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictorsdag 16. mai 2019, klokken 19:07
 yes :( every time I start the CHAS 2.6 softvare:
- I have to choose  "DefaultVariableData.var" location (which is in program files/chad where I save it the first time after instalation)
-Then I enter setup and select "compatability mode"  The COM number (1) and baud rate (38400) are also selected (same COM and baud rate are also in Computer / device manager / com ports )
I've read many times the CHAS V2.6 user manual doc file, even before the first instalation.
I'm lost, I could not belive that PCU refuse to talk with me, I never told bad things about him to anyone :)
Maybe I need to pre-install some other softvare (like NET.framework for Comtool )  ?
Or maybe I have a defective/old CHAS version, could you please zip and send me your version by mail ?
plastic4pexic@yahoo.com
Thanks in a million times Nikolai !
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 17. mai 2019, klokken 10:40
Hello, it's me  :)

I find out the problem: Rx and Tx must be inversed, see picture for details:
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I still have some not accesible menus :
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What I was able to extract:
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Now I have to see what these info means...
Have a nice day to all!
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemofredag 17. mai 2019, klokken 10:55
Do you mind publishing photo of your cable and annotate it?
What connector do you have in the car? Is it the square with 2x2 pins or the other with the 1x4 pins?
You can always test the GND pin.
The RX and TX pins are trickier but one is always 12V I think.
Unless you tried too much and burned the RS232 driver in the PCU, but I have never seen that happen before.

I am using an FTDI RS232 to USB adapter and works every time.
https://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Cables/USBRS232.htm
Don't remember the model, but it was one of the white box ones without lights.
 


Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemofredag 17. mai 2019, klokken 11:03
OK, posted at the same time...
So VcSta is 2 - "Ready"... so that is ok
PrndSta is 0 - "Park"... this is ok if the car is in Park, and it will not drive, but if you have the stick in "D" and the PrndSta is not showing 3 "Drive", then there must be an issue with the gear shifter.
Check this, and post back.
I have seen some reports of microswitches in the gear shifter needed to be changed.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 17. mai 2019, klokken 11:24
Thanks Nikolai, here are the data collected in DRIVE mode:
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Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 17. mai 2019, klokken 15:01
 I was able to find these possible errors :

din_dcdc_fault_l
din_ps_fault_l
PAS CAN communication fault, missing messages     MIL
bmi_ac_heater_sw_status
bmi_sys_int_iso_err     Ehaz
ERR_RM_GATE_DRIVE = 41


errors warning lights:
dout_oss2_abs_warning_l
dout_oss2_sli_wrn_lamp_l
dout_oss3_malfnc_ind_l

I will keep searching for some others

Regards
Viorel V.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemofredag 17. mai 2019, klokken 15:16
Ok, great.
Check the state of the CAN bus. Can you measure resistance between CAN-H and CAN-L, between CAN-H and GND, and between CAN-L and GND.
Also PAS I think is the belt and airbag system.
Can you plug your PCAN to the car, and then start PCAN View, switch to log and save a log of CAN bus messages when you start the car.
Attach the trc file here.
You can ignore the BMI errors - these are only for when your car has Zebra battery.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 17. mai 2019, klokken 18:05
 great ? ok, if you say so, I fully trust you :)

CanL to CanH = 63.9 ohm
CanL to GND  = 1.516 Kohm
CanH to GND  = 1.515 Kohm

trc file attached (please rename it as .trc since I can only upload .txt )
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Thank you!
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemolørdag 18. mai 2019, klokken 07:01
The only message I am missing in your log is 0x495 - PAS status.
Just to test you can check what would happen if you send that message on the can bus.
Try 0x495, length 2, bytes: 7F 00, every 100ms

You can do this with the PCAN Viewer - there is a window at the bottom that allows you to set up sending of messages.
Start sending and then try to start the car again.

EDIT: Remember to still look in CHAS to see if the PCU is still complaining about PAS.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiclørdag 18. mai 2019, klokken 14:24
Thank you very much Nicolai.
I'll try exactly what you told me.

Please note that in the "circuit diagram" of the car the PAS sistem means "power steering".
Also please note that the correspondent FUSE for power steering is missing (fuse nr 54 -5A) from my car, I assume I don't have power steering.

I'll be back with the test results, thanks again.

Viorel V.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemolørdag 18. mai 2019, klokken 15:44
You are correct!
I was thinking of the belts and airbags system.
But why would the PCU want to hear from a power steering if your car does not have one?
Please try with sending the message on the CAN bus and see if the PCU is still complaining.


Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiclørdag 18. mai 2019, klokken 18:50
Dear friends

After one more trip back to the future:
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I was meeting Nikolai, this Tzar of think city cars !  :) I told him my story and he replied : PAS ...and PAS it was  :+1:
I just find out that missing of power steering fuse in my car was not normal, I inserted one 5A mini fuse and :
https://youtu.be/doVwdX1quwo

Thanks again Nikolai, Thanks again dear Think friends!

Next : little pause and then...to do list:

-Fix the  ABS error (I hope it will dissapear after 1 Km of driving but we will see, the error pop up when I measured the ABS fuse while "key run"  :(((... stupid me.
-Register the car for circulation, license plates etc etc.
-Finish and fix the LTO 12V battery modification.
-Replace the electric high voltage heater with diesel webasto.
-Replace all but head lights with LED lights.
-Build a clone/emulator for RLEC and/or MLEC board(s) so any type of cells can be adapted to work with this car. (RLEC clone seems to be an easier job for a begginer like me)
-It will be more other small modifications, all to be descrcibed on this forum.

See you soon!
Viorel V.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: Fredericsøndag 19. mai 2019, klokken 10:19
Bonjour Pexit,

Can you explain:
I've performed an "HV isolation" check (thanks Catalin for advice) but nothing wrong was found


Thank you
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicsøndag 19. mai 2019, klokken 14:28
Salut Frederic

I have measured with digital multimeter the voltage between:
 +400 Volt cable and battery metal case
-400 Volt cable and battery metal case

In both cases the multimeter show approx 0 (zero) Volts.

The battery metal case/box must be always connected to car chasis!

This is mandatory if you perform any kind of measurements with the battery out of the car (as I did) - for your safety.

Pexic
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemomandag 20. mai 2019, klokken 09:07
Great to see the wheels spinning!
I still remember the feeling of seeing this after restoring a vehicle for 6 months.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: mohpetmandag 20. mai 2019, klokken 10:57
Next : little pause and then...to do list:

-Fix the  ABS error (I hope it will dissapear after 1 Km of driving but we will see, the error pop up when I measured the ABS fuse while "key run"  :(((... stupid me.
Congratulations on your success!
Regarding the ABS error pop up: I believe this will correct itself,  I had this myself when I once started the car without a fuse.   I quickly realised that it was a silly thing to do, really. But the error light disappeared after short drive only.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: Fredericmandag 20. mai 2019, klokken 12:09
Hello pexit,

what model of connector is it ?


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Thank you
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicmandag 20. mai 2019, klokken 13:20
Hi Frederic

Many people calling this as "AMP super-seal" connector :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32995405185.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000013.1.4b1164c8J1kM3o&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.90158.0&scm_id=1007.13339.90158.0&scm-url=1007.13339.90158.0&pvid=91ae618f-8614-47b1-b456-2067f9a0662d

Don't know the "official" name.

But, if it's hard for you to find one, you have a second solution :
just cut the wires from this connector and replace it with a standard female COM (serial) connector ;)
I said "female" because almost all serial to usb adapters have "male" serial connector.

Regards
Viorel V.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiconsdag 22. mai 2019, klokken 09:37
Hi friends

As I expected, the ABS error is gone now, after few meters of driving.
The car is driving well, the power steering is not very performant for city driving (it's not very easy to turn the wheel while standing).
Now I have to put back the old battery for car inspection so Romanian car papers could be issued.

Regards
Viorel V.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemoonsdag 22. mai 2019, klokken 13:52
Could you do me a favor and if you still have the bracket for the 12V battery out if you could take 10 photos of it from all kinds of angles and measure 3 directions, so I can make a 3d model of it?

Thanks in advance!
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiconsdag 22. mai 2019, klokken 19:31
It is not a favor! you are my best friend BauDemo!  :-*    I'll do that tomorrow.
Also I can ask one of my former work colleague to do that for you but it will last few weeks I think - let me know.

Meanwhile I've compared the advantages/dissadvantages of LTO versus Lifepo4 cells  - that I intend to implement on my Think in the future.
It seems that Lifepo4 is more convenient due the higher energy density and much lower (half) price comparing to LTO.
The only big dissadvantage is : cannot be charged under 0 celsius. (which can be a problem in northen countries but here in the Balcans we only have one month with such low temps due to the global warming)
I think I can fit at least 32Kwh Lifepo4 cells inside but I'll be back with final calculations soon.
Also tomorrow I can start measure the real range of my car and I'll keep you posted.
See you tomorrow!

Regards
Viorel V.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemoonsdag 22. mai 2019, klokken 23:14
Thanks!
Made a new thread about this.
Regarding the battery pack - what is the price per kWh for LiFePO?
Why not just get a battery pack from nissan leaf and use all the electronics, contactors, heating management, etc?
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictorsdag 23. mai 2019, klokken 14:40
What I have found in China with shipping cost and EU import tax included :
105Ah Lifepo4 cell = 65 usd($), so approx 195$/Kwh (175 eur/Kwh).
Shipped by sea (60 days).

FYI: shipped by air (15 days) it will be + 15...20%
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictorsdag 23. mai 2019, klokken 21:23
Hello friends
First test was done today, mostly on highway.
Average speed = 70Km/h.
Max speed 100Km/h
Distance 62,2Km

At the end of test SOC-meter shows 60% battery left.
After key removed -> 1 minute pause -> key=run  - SOC-meter = 34% battery left.
Comtool connected -> 34% SOC
minim V cell = 3,41V , max V cell =3,7V

Something is wrong here ...any ideas ?

In rest - no problem whatsoever, perfect car behaviour - the motor sound was almost identical to subway trains sound.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemofredag 24. mai 2019, klokken 07:17
This is as expected.
The BMS is estimating 3 (or 4) different SOC based on different things. Ah charged/discharged, voltage, ...
If you had the nikometer you would see these SOC... and when one or more of the cells in the pack report lower voltages the SOC values differ drastically.
I am attaching a photo I made on a pack with a big difference in reported voltages.
See the P: 1: and 2:... these are usually very close to each other on a balanced pack.
 
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 24. mai 2019, klokken 07:23
Thank you.
So one more thing on to do list:
-Nikometer   :+1:
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictirsdag 28. mai 2019, klokken 09:45
Hello
The cell balancing is in progress, now the CV delta (diff between the lowest and highest voltage cell) is 0.12V.
The range seems more "normal now".
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicfredag 31. mai 2019, klokken 16:35
Hello friends

I was looking for cells balancers and I found a nice one (at first look) :
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
I've contacted the chinese supplier and he sent me this "manual": 
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
The price seems resonable (75 eur without the metal box)
Other advantages:
-Balancing is made non-stop till the cells have same voltage (so better than Top balance, Bottom balance)
-Can be used with almost all type of cell (cell nominal voltage must be in 1...5V range). So can be reused in case of changing the battery cells ;)
-It also has an ios & android app which display all cells voltages and let the user choose some variables (such as the balance current - max 1A for this model)
On short this ballancer moves "energy" from high voltage cells to low voltage cells all the time by charging and discharging one capacitor (or few). This is very good for EV applications since it will give you the maximum range possible (according to your cells).

Overall I think it deserve a chance for testing so I've ordered two (24 cells  = the cells number is one enerdel pack, I intend to use one module for one grey enerdel box).

have fun!
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexiclørdag 22. juni 2019, klokken 17:46
Hello

update:  computer cooler added:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

cooler info : 12V / 150mA - connected to +12V power bar of one RLEC.
Air filter added in the car compartment (under the floor, behind the seats)

scope :
-ventilate the air inside the battery for better cooling of RLEC modules
-ventilate the air inside the battery for eliminating the water accumulation during condensation.
-create air pressure inside the battery so moisture will not enter even if there are small air gaps around the battery case.
-heating the battery during winter (webasto unit will be mounted in the same empty box as the battery air filter :
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

have fun!
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemosøndag 23. juni 2019, klokken 11:44
Great work! I have been thinking of adding a fan too, but on the wall that would match the opening in the car chassis that is behind the passenger door. I think this opening is in light beige color in the last photo you uploaded.
Have you cut a hole in the chassis? Or maybe there is already opening there that I have missed?
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexicsøndag 23. juni 2019, klokken 16:56
The opening in the chasis  is already there, in fact there are two openings the one used by me (in the middle) and a larger one in the right. Beside that in the front right passager side.
The two back openings are vertical and if you install the cooler like I did you don't neet to cut the chasis.
I"ll upload a picture soon.

have fun.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictirsdag 25. juni 2019, klokken 09:47
Here is the chasis hole used by me for ventilation , view from under the car (battery was removed) :
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: BauDemotirsdag 25. juni 2019, klokken 12:07
Thank you for the photo.
I adjusted it a bit to make the opening more visible.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: jurlørdag 10. august 2019, klokken 18:16
Hi all,

 the information shared here about troubleshooting Enerdel batteries is really instructive. So maybe one of the Enerdel specialists here is able to enlighten me:
I've been asked to help with the diagnosis of battery issues on a small fleet of lithium-equipped Th!nks. So I installed Commtool (v3.08) on my diagnosis gear and tried it on 2 cars on the vehicle CAN bus, but could only receive raw data. I tried a few of the provided .MSF files, but got only "no data received" messages. As far as CAN messages sent only on the internal bus are concerned, this is as expected, but I wonder if Commtool is any good at all on the vehicle CAN bus. Or do I miss something?
Unfortunately, the documentation from Enerdel I could retrieve, is rather vague in this respect.
For example I could not find a list of CAN messages sent by the MLEC on the external bus yet. 

Thanks in advance and best regards,
Jens

   
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: worryonsdag 14. august 2019, klokken 21:41
Hi. I'm not the real specialist here, but I can try:
When I read my own car I do it with the battery connected to the car and from the diagnose plug on the dasboard. "Ignition" on.
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: pexictorsdag 15. august 2019, klokken 13:20
@jur
check in commtool (upper right) if "Rcv. Range is 61E - 61F.  if not- please input these values and try again (CAN Bus must be checked also)
Tittel: Sv: Enerdel battery fault - repairing...replacing...
Skrevet av: jurfredag 30. august 2019, klokken 10:00
Thanks a lot Pexic,
after setting the range the tool worked fine. Now I'm drowning in data  ;D

Regards,
Jens