Elbilforum.no - driftet av Norsk elbilforening
Bilmerker => Tidlige elbiler: Think => "Nye" TH!NK City produsert fra 2008 - 2012 => Emne startet av: Zuikkis på søn 17. sep 2023, kl. 18:23
Hi!
I'd like to introduce my cars. :)
I bought the red one in 2020. It had only 25000km in the odo. Here it is, the day it arrived:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc-sICkVq5p0JpHshCbiCf1xkaNX7FPqkV3maDR81xDLHf0UKIwMxkdOXhEc-D2gfCdAiEwbTrbfVUZVVhQaIHdWrpVved36KwFDNx2wtTBj65GI8yHlYEvzdyc5nAh3y6dfvyqMTdrxJev_RXzvw6Wh_w=w1024)
First thing that struck me was how incredibly high the suspension is.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc-fNPw9pjt9EI_PwVzmnHdRPcnYb3G6_Hvwj_jckaHG4Uc1DReOnBSPggEL_ZIF8XNaP7BDn9cCZSJYvQTfZ7Oue6hqs4oudLNy56YA6cDLCX_TuswX-IPN8xPxtESPt_mMlRadTPfLTQSjnTisAQI_SQ=w1024)
I was the official Finnish importer of K-Sport suspensions at the time. So I figured I would lower the car. :) I bought 106 coilover set and installed it. Rear needed some work because it's really from 206 and not 106, but the struts fitted with some work. Rear lowering is done by adjusting the tension bars, but you need shorter dampers.
Front uses the lower part of the original strut, but the top half is changed to a coilover.
Anyway, car looked cool now. :) I also bought 15" wheels!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc_o69AywGTKDZkPevUgExKqk4tlsy04iAEjEWDeeGO761AY8JSfweCpSOlieOPeSOx1JOj804uph6WKjbA-zSPN7DIy-ERd6p-aBVJVqIjyvuk1hjJJvf5ze60Gmian_2OvF-ME21jVYz_4C6ZMy6mjFw=w1024)
In August we bought a Tesla Model S too. And my kid already had a Twizy 45. Missing in this family photo is my EV-converted Datsun 100A, we ran out of drivers. :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc9-Av6uKE04XCUDDcm-LqWSyEhJCKw2eIMZ8sTTC6zF-wyRO_sS1d4TytMCcB03qVoL2qBAsc3hZmX7cZM0f2SCb3i-ELGlWGsPRMn-aFtWNe-ExVENY3-tEJqibohjVLlapD2oOZd_24B93oZG7iNSCQ=w1024)
Everything went well for over a year. My wife used the car to drive to work every day, even in winter time. Ground clearance was a bit of a issue in the winter, though. :D
However. We have a big stone in the road that goes behind our shed. Everyone knows it's there and knows you must not drive into it. :D Except for my kid that started car license learning and I forgot to warn him, and he drove straight to the stone. Doh! There was a big dent in the battery box, which I fixed with Sikaflex:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc-OcL4ShuLa60T9vClgRI_vIw_LMsu7vFGXxXe3TLAU1COea2LLUwu66N8T2NCnbUzws_-65vFxJi5bHGOkVHSGf37Wqua0jv7yvB5pb4SvvIjml1l6T_oAPWzAPk6F3Dv828VC-bMAmc149K-HIhlWgw=w1024)
Car drove fine even with the dent, so I thought nothing of it. Car had no issues for entire summer of 2021. But then in August 2021 we had a baby (fourth child) and wife has been at home after that, and Think was not used for the winter. At spring 2022 I thought I'd drive the car, but it had died during the winter. :( Battery problem..
I'm not sure if the dent had anything to do with it, but surely it didn't help.
(story continues) :)
ThinkTank Energy Storage
As we still had no use for the car, I thought I'd use the battery cells for home energy storage. I dropped the battery to see how bad it is.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc_4rO7HDBMniElbrJjSB1jmaL2YDVFMDSxZJBjaLvu4hL8aF5Z1LOzMBoWKbfOnlixATn8RN9GEs86pMAoaJBRasE8R4Eq_H-DYlIWlex_Sc6OnAXOUuj7wuYXdgeEyv-gtNAoYnMj_3zX71SZhVZyRqQ=w1024)
After investigation, all cells were in good shape (over 3V) but five RLEC cards had burned components. One module had physical damage from the rock bump, but still over 3V in every cell. But I removed that module anyway so it doesn't burn my house down at a later time. :)
Here's the installation:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc_bOXvqLNydOzkwTOOLLfppjP_04SM5H-Hf9jIlzZgL_PpGzR78ie0AfBsg8aIF7Y8AMneDdyoCglZT3zpxCj9ynwh-wi36oYI9PTPSWrIRkuEpszmWPnnymPJ-vKigbgEt7ymkxt-DB15ZcQ33N6DqrQ=w1024)
I used the original RLECs as a BMS, controlled by Raspberry Pi with a CAN hat. Since I didn't have enough RLECs, I made a bridge card so single RLEC can control two battery modules.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc-3GYQqH4Lc_yafPKy0mjUYmAk4w1SyirHn7K-LHRh7oJrR5azOUapM9aT-I6v9hV6dtoL8tqr6Mi-gS-R66kf51CeW4-4NwOoUFd95kbne4NUmW-cStpb1-dGAI11j1kO7PUvVNXtnlCH85_IJrbdFwQ=w1024)
Another Think
Ok, fast forward to August 2023. :) I bought another Think! It was really cheap, I paid only 1100€. But it had a broken battery, and even the body is pretty much ruined as the windshield is broken and lots of physical damage.. Even the bonnet and front bumper is broken. The car had hit a deer.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc87ONQiqRHMga_qSkSIC-o9-o8er2fgw3Jx5wPdxvZkxkuo_gPKYzCwUHEI1RfYBKLLKJ4BHzoO9zomdXJzCeCklpKWmKk0ma6G-KM52gaNIso9wIW0IW-J-L1vY-82ZGUfiiSYM4sKB1AbAM4cLHcWzQ=w1024)
Also the car has over 130000km in the odometer. Anyone heard of a Think with such high mileage? Amazing. :)
Again dropped the battery:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc_1FPuVwd_W5Oq_BcOxjaHEvAdUquFrSUBF2hXFcPOwSsFV4mPLWPMHc7bNQxjoZDKt7zu2l8kamUWBZY9dbKc-j3MxcdBcmiuCb0l_A1MA1nC82gXXWXVQl0tPOX-6B6f3KC3gkZV-DWdjL7Xue0r7Xw=w1024)
This battery had significant water damage. You can actually see the water in the picture if you zoom in. Only 8 RLEC boards were working, and many cells had discharged to almost 0V.
I disassembled the battery case to bare metal, then brought it to a company that does sand blasting and painting. They did a great job. After sand blasting there were visible holes which I then fixed. But it's obvious how water got into the battery..
Before:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc-5MtG0bjLwOlvU8xAx1c9GR0X3Gz9TShnDMABoRKCewdbuNmm7b0xR6jZjSy5AU1LnrlTWu_ulm7aiHdNUCoNGSRHxyf8WFNHsbKWkKz8_uvUIUoLAldkvUwtTwGUIurX4SrWbLR-IIhrujiDPgJpCsQ=w1024)
After (sorry different angle):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc933Z1_w8lbQvE1EFRFVpHtD2XmF_hwz6o2hZvciZ07yW9KyDXXe-Rlu0g0VjLg6FD1thneHsNBv9Yj6e1DQNXApbFYQn8GprbakzK6tQD-gghxkguaUg7Z1yLvNcgfuyitbvP9ukZB6Lga7sSaHC5pYw=w1024)
At this point I changed the configuration in my ThinkTank Energy Storage so it doesn't use RLECs anymore, instead a separate BMS. This way I had enough RLECs! I needed to change some of the IDs but it went well.
I also removed one module from the ThinkTank to get enough good cells to replace the 0V ones. Luckily that was enough. So ThinkTank still has 14 modules, and then I got full 16 modules for the other pack.
A week ago was a moment of truth... I fitted the pack to the red Think, switched ignition ON... and the car worked. Damn! :D Amazing.
Then I decided it's time to change the lowered suspension back to normal. I removed the front struts from Think #2 and fitted those to the red one.
If anyone is interested on the K-Sports I can sell them quite cheap, they are now removed from the car. But I'm in Finland and shipping can be expensive, no idea. :) We might visit Norway next summer though..
Here's a picture from yesterday, car back to original height and clean and tidy. :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc_9CmyWndVIfSzXZhcgfr5wx9v4fSonKpXVLMqzzXRZAPuOQFEJLvEiE3a7IjbJcKnKfcH2Que2dNlhnwmQAQ_D6lfJSmG8GbqCkhM56dSHfE6mCSoBeR8wTvB0VArBQ7fzXDUImqBig-AjOvPu6HWTGw=w1024)
:+1:
Great story, thanks for sharing!
Nice!
Sorry if the humour is bad. but this song popped into my head, and I could'nt get this song of my mind!
;)
"Oh, Think Twice! It's just another day for you and me in Paradise!"
(You and me = You and the cars!)
Thank you for sharing. Great story!
The little red rooster (sorry couldn't resist) looked much faster when lowered! Now it's back to normal speed. Hope you keep it on the road for a long time.
BTW, our blue one just passed 130k km. No issues so far. But the battery have been out just to check for water problems.
This is absolutely great. THANKS alot for a great Think story. I know the later Thinks were produced at the Valtra factory in Finland. Do you have any idea how many Thinks are still running in Finland and do you see them for sale there?
Sitat fra: Marsto på søn 17. sep 2023, kl. 20:13This is absolutely great. THANKS alot for a great Think story. I know the later Thinks were produced at the Valtra factory in Finland. Do you have any idea how many Thinks are still running in Finland and do you see them for sale there?
There's only a handful here. Even if they were manufactured here I don't think many were actually sold here. Most were exported to USA and Norway.
Most Finnish cars are sold at nettiauto.com (https://nettiauto.com) and usually it can be months that not a single Think is there. Currently there's one selling at 3900€, and I have seen the same one there multiple times earlier... So it doesn't seem it's exactly going at that price.
Okay. I hope you will be able to keep your red Think running for many years. With so low milage it should last a long time. Here in Norway we have as of december 2022 207 cars left, Classic and City. Most of the sales here is done through finn.no but exactly the same here. Very few for sale.
Some good and bad news. I'll start with the good ones. :)
The car was not driven for two years, so I had to take it to be inspected so it can be legally driven again. All clear, no issues! See you next time before 19.9.2024! ;D Brakes were a bit rusty and sticky but still within specs.
But then the bad part. When driving to the inspection, suddenly the red "flash" warning came on, and my Nikometer showed "Ext. Isolation Fault". Doh! Car still drove fine, and after restarting the error was gone. And more importantly didn't come again during the inspection, and most importantly didn't halt there. :) That would have been embarrassing.
I probably do nothing if the error doesn't come back. But doesn't "external isolation fault" mean something else than the battery? The heater perhaps? It was a cold morning so heater was running at full blast, and it hasn't been used in two years so it's possible there was some moisture?
Yeah, this is typical a pre-warning for the heater, specially if you have the original Mes-Dea. Was it on a moist/rainy day? I've seen the insulation on the cables to the heater crack, specially very close to the heater where it does a 90degree bend, and water and such can penetrate in there quite badly. I guess it might in some unlucky instances make a voltage creep to the grounding system causing a external insulation fault which comes and goes with the weather...
It could of course be many other things as well, but at least it is a place to start. If you get it quite often in near feature, try swapping the heater connector with a blind-plug and see if the problem disappear.
(Unfortunately, if it is problems with the heater, it might blow a fuse inside the CPU-box, and that is a pain to take out for repair)
Update after almost two months and maybe 1000km of driving. The "ext iso" problem has not reappeared! So that's good.
However there is a new problem. Sometimes, few minutes after starting, car enters "Power Limit" mode with warning lights on.. :( But after stopping and toggling power, all is fine and it doesn't happen again until many days.
Car had this exact problem two years ago, exactly the same symptoms. Then the battery died completely so I figured it was related to that. But now I'm thinking maybe car has separate problem which still isn't fixed.
I do have a Nikometer. It doesn't show anything special during the power limit. Battery voltages and temperatures are fine, and it doesn't show isolation fault. So is this something in the PCU?
Car is driveable with the "power limit" sign flashing, but it is really really slow. But enough so you can drive it safely on the side of the road and toggle the power.
It's interesting that the problem appears almost like a clockwork after ~2 minutes of driving. First I thought it's location related when it always happened at the same place after leaving home, but now it has done it in same way when I leave work.
It's still not "critical" as it only happens perhaps once a week, but sure is annoying. Especially if you have long line of cars behind you. :)
Oh, I forgot the most important part. :D My wife didn't dare to try to car after the battery fix, but then she needed to go to the gym and Tesla was out of juice so she finally decided to try Think. And obviously THAT was the time this problem appeared the first time. ;D
She phoned me from the side of the road, "car just stopped and doesn't move".. I asked "have you tried turning it off and on again?" .. wait a few secs .. "OK now it goes again! <click>"
Make yourself a CHAS/Siadis-cable and ask the PCU what's wrong when it happens.
With me it was the accelerator pedal which had problems when exactly this happened some time back...
https://elbilforum.no/index.php?topic=62004.0
(if you need the CHAS software, we are more than happy to share)
Thanks for the hint!
I actually already bought the parts for a CHAS cable some months ago, but since the car started working I haven't build it yet. :) I do have the software.
Now that you mentioned the throttle, it kind of makes sense.. thinking backwards, the problem has appeared when quickly applying throttle. Like when you are the first car in the traffic lights in a long queue, then lights turn green and Think decides not to go. :-[
I built the CHAS cable and tested that the connection is working. :) I tried to reproduce the problem by driving around but obviously today it had no issues.
All Fault flags are zero so that is nice. Hopefully something changes when the fault is present.
Perhaps temperature has something to do with it, the problems seemed to happen at about 0C temps.. Now it's much warmer again.
Obviously now that I'm driving around with laptop and CHAS there is no more errors. :D
However while looking at the values while driving, I do feel the APS is behaving strangely. See screenshot:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ADCreHfxzMaO8NdzY8hlcYFgcZZjy1zB-OvW03IdS3Wk8paCPOBWSVIPebZoHxf-GmIOmm27iYZb5C-u9FGW7m155MueNmOTIi06-fQLx6Cti6Ke__E-2KU4qJPExpiYw_nYP-jDhudCCse1mHIDWkyp7PIFZw=w1024)
APS2 is much lower than APS1 or APS3. I didn't photograph it, but at very low throttle APS1 & APS3 can still be like 8% and APS2 already reaches zero. At full throttle APS1 & APS3 reach 100% but APS2 is only 92%.
The fault code excel says that >25% disagreement causes a fault. So I only have 7-8% disagreement here "normally", but maybe it sometimes glitches higher.
Yes! Finally it happened again while I had the CHAS cable and a laptop. :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ADCreHezwBUi6HowCfBcMwJQJOmQadulus1Mp2u7pUCqPn73vghvAbCjP5BXvpfBbuNt8QRsV-a0KLV9nhDaDVDUpeEJb2up58U3dDDADuFsVkSGK7rNAPzird4MeEUX6COEVVqjZpiivVL4qXgSSGe6CtA87A=w1024)
So FltSt0 has one fault, and this translates to:
s[3]^11 aps1_rmx_fault fault_status[0]^1 sM sPL all APS sensor 1 signal above maximum - likely short to +5v or +12v
So throttle pedal it is, as suspected! Luckily I have my other "spare parts" Think, I'll just grab the pedal from there. Hopefully this fixes it! :) In theory I think the fault could be in PCU too..
Oh, just noticed FltSt3[11] is also set, but this is:
aps_oor_dtc_fault fault_status[3]^11 M APS 1 2 or 3 out-of-range
So it's the same thing.
Yes, exaclty the same as I had (might have been one of the two other lines form the throttle pedal).
Changing the pedal solved it, just two bolts and a plug (make sure it's not corrosion in the plug that does it). A very easy change :)
Been driving a year or so with no problem after the change :)
Anyways, nice find, and hopefully this solves your troubles for a long long time :)
A great find, congratulations! :+1:
But the next obvious question will be; is it possible to repair the throttle pedal? Some day we will be out of spareparts.
The pedals are sealed plastic, so I did not open ours (I believe I saw som pictures of it's inside at one point tho?). One could break in if one want to of course, and almost everything it repairable/replaceable at some level, it just becomes increasingly more difficult to do so. If everything else fails, we would just have to recreate the electronics in the pedal, or put in a "man in the middle" box to "translate" form a pedal form something else. It would of course also be interesting to find out if the pedal in the think is actually common with some other car from Ford.
And yeah, may our Thinks live long. Like they say in Commodore 64 retro communities:
"Old computers don't die, their owners do"
Sitat fra: worry på tor 16. nov 2023, kl. 12:19A great find, congratulations! :+1:
But the next obvious question will be; is it possible to repair the throttle pedal? Some day we will be out of spareparts.
It is from a Ford, like everything else in this car. :) Ford diesels use "fly by wire" throttle. I'm not sure about the exact model, but for example this one is pretty close:
https://www.iprresearch.com/Ford-Accelerator-Pedal-05-07-6.0-Diesel-F250-F350-F450-F550-w-o-Adjustable-Pedal.html
The pedal part looks different (shorter?) but the sensor looks identical to me.
Also found a "china edition" from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-Solutions-699-125-Accelerator-Assembly/dp/B07QNLP9XD/ref=pd_day0_sccl_1_1/137-6426952-5259836
Edit: Real Think pedal for comparison:
https://ecooparts.com/en/used-auto-part/accelerator-pedal/think/city/18714554_accelerator-pedal-5351010c-think-city-3-puertas.html
Ahh, I see. Thanks.
Agreed, I will probably die before my cars. Maybe I should stop repairing them. ;D
Oops it did it again... :-\
With the pedal from the other car, it worked fine for almost two weeks. But now it was super cold (-19C) and now car refused to go completely. So it was slightly different from the earlier problem, earlier it would go for 1-2km and then stop, now it failed right at the garage.
Plugged my laptop and sure enough it is the throttle sensor again, but this time I was able to see the incorrect APS values myself. APS1 is 33.57% while APS2 and APS3 are at 0%.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ADCreHcRM9ckwPt1sekxxUP9xWA2Nb-Dic3q2T57FwqB-cDmXTExxfINyahp9ThsIBqo_pedf4kLGAQF_Mqm14eFq1VQ2_5YQGNqMSngXOQ6tLj-CGUMQ2KQdxUfEWMD1w4IQMBlvrcM-YCjHV1I3a6uXEUYGw=w1024)
However after a few minutes the APS values started working normally and after a restart the car worked. But then it failed after few hundred meters again. :) Not very promising.
Maybe I have water damage in my PCU? The spare car probably has a working PCU but I know it's horrible job to swap.. Or I might have two broken pedals..
That's really annoying... ::)
I had a similar problem with a VW Caddy 2009 model.
The pedal was defect three times because of snow and ice.
Every time I sat me in the car in winter, I had snow on my boots.
I tried to get rid of the snow as good as possible, but there was some snow always fell of my boots and collected around the pedal.
After a while the pedal got stuck and stopped working.
That was not funny while driving down or up a hill, and no matter what I did with the pedal, I couldn't control the engine speed anymore.
So electronic accelerator pedals can have a weak point in cold weather, I guess!
Hmm I'm clueless here.
I tried to swap the old pedal back. Just the connector, so the pedal was just hanging there. It didn't change anything. I could reproduce the problem with both pedals.
At this temperature the problem is so bad it's easy to reproduce it with car standing still. Just keep car in P so it doesn't move, twist throttle back and forth a few times until it fails.
Then I thought I'd go for a test drive. I sit on the driver's seat and closed the door. You know Think doors need a good wham to get closed. Anyway, the instant I closed the door, the warning lights came up.
I could reproduce this many times. :) toggle power so warning lights disappear. Shut the door and warning lights come up.
It's even possible to just rock the car sideways a few times, that is enough to make the fault appear.
I tried to whack the PCU with a piece of wood, but that DIDN'T cause the fail. So perhaps the fault isn't in PCU after all? There must be some loose connector somewhere?
Oh I also tried to heat the pedal sensor and the PCU with a heat blower, but that didn't seem to change anything.
I have to look at the wiring diagrams to see what connectors there are in between of throttle sensor and the PCU..
The cables through the doors ar very badly designed. They used too stiff cables, and bending them thousand of times more than 90 degrees makes hem snap. I at least have spliced cables in the harness there many times.
The accelerator harness joins the rest of the car in connector C1 i think, and the cables to/from the door also go the the PCU through the GEM-box. Might it be that you have a intermittent short in some cabling that knocks out the GEM completely which then do strange things to the rest of the car?
At least cold weather does not soften the cables in the door i guess...
I fixed it! Woohoo! Car went nicely for over 5km, must be fixed now forever! (Hopeful thinking) ;D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ADCreHfm91XuT-yaCa7FgfT7HQGpsaZthOBSLtOKBaG9BfuVzsYV8Ejf-MmsbxFF34lQilgDUoHVQikx7rr-wJ7QCbVvhf-JwrXO8yGuyBaG7SVib_wQM8892_5J4u81dN4txCicxwjOaGshoZ2wl-xAXxvXmA=w1024)
I looked at the wiring schematic, indeed there is connector C1 as Warlock just pointed out. I check the PCU connector first, it looked nice.
Then I wondered inside the car where C1 might be. There is a huge bunch of connectors below the fuse box in the passenger footwell. While looking there I noticed a huge set of connectors that are locked in place with a purple plastic piece. That purple plastic was not fully pressed, it was at least 1cm out! I pushed it in and there was a nice "click" sound. After that car worked without issues, I went instantly for the test drive and it worked nicely. :)
Hopefully it is really fixed.
Below is the picture of the wire madness and the purple piece on plastic, now fully pressed. Above you can see a cardboard box that holds my Duinomite Mega, it's possible I have touched the connector while shoving the box there..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ADCreHdR0rjAXXY2omhmhHUjkhvNZLuQ0f6QVH78R8SyHYWrhXQ07tS4gb31Mhd7nB3qFWNwk5e8cz8B-0QVhSZ42ZgscvYZ3tsVdgBik5cXlYvUlTIWYtjK1PpwsRT1AHsjAKpY84xvrP7t2u3JW_cSpaS76Q=w1024)
Nice work! 100% description of a fault is 50% description of the solution - at least!
Good to see, that you found the reason for this trouble.
;D
I have problems with the cables to the left and right door, too.
There is a problem in the left door with the locking system and the right door with the loudspeaker.
Fun fact: under -10°C I have no problems with the locking problem. :laugh:
Doh! I mentioned last September that we had unexplained "Ext. Iso Fault" on the first test run, but that it hasn't happened after that.
Now it did it again! First time was last week. It was really cold, -25C, and I was low on charge while at city so I took it to parking garage to charge. Garage had probably +10C. Car charged fine but when I left it immediately lit the red triangle and NicoMeter showed "Ext iso fault" again. Doh. But car drove fine for a few hundred meters until it stopped. Powercycle allowed yet another few hundred meters. This happened a few times. But then mysteriously it started working and I drove 15km to home without stops, and now we have driven over 100km without issues during many days.
But now while at home I noticed from my home automation that Think is not charging while it should be. I went to look and sure enough the red triangle was there again. :P But now I was at home with my CHAS laptop ready so I could debug it. This is with charger cable still connected, as I was afraid the error would go away if I remove it.
Some decoding of the fields:
Errcode 41:
ERR_RM_GATE_DRIVE = 41 // 0x0029
Dins:
din_dcdc_fault_l Dins[0]^11;
din_key_run_h dins[0]^12;
din_pilot_wu_h dins[0]^13;
BMI Flag:
can_bmi_flags[0]^1; bmi_sys_gener_err
can_bmi_flags[0]^2; bmi_sys_iso_err
can_bmi_flags[1]^6; bmi_sys_ext_iso_err
Now, the DCDC fault sounds interesting? Does that mean the 12V battery charger? I assume that is inside the PCU?
Edit: I assume "AiVbatF" is 12V battery voltage? It is only 12.08V... Maybe I'm on a right track.
In order to find the isolation fault, I manufactured a dummy connector that can be plugged into PCU heater and A/C connectors, so I could test if that affects it.
It didn't, still external isolation fault. Perhaps it's moisture inside the PCU?
Then I did something stupid. I powered the car when the heater connector was empty. Obviously all kinds of warning lights came up, so I power off and reinstall the connector.
However now the car is really dead. NikoMeter shows "*crash* *emergency* and not much more. Contactors don't click.
CHAS shows "bmi_sys_emergency" and "bmi_sys_crash" in BMIFlag1.
I have working CommTool also, using the chinese PCAN clone adapter. Also there I can see the emergency/crash, otherwise everything looks normal. I tried to clear the faults with sending ID 61e and 745 as instructed in the Vehicle_CAN_Bus_Guide_V3.0.docx document. Car responds correctly showing that codes are cleared, but it still doesn't work.
I think the codes need to be cleared from the PCU? I tried installing ThinkTechCenter, but it can't connect to the car. I remember seeing some instructions here earlier, I'll try if I can make it work.
Looking at my documents, I found this worrying remark in file PCUReplacementProcedure.pdf:
"Never, ever plug in the low voltage connector to the heater without having the high voltage connector
plugged in to a working high voltage port on the PCU. It will necessitate the VCU and CDCM being
replaced until that mistake is not made again"
::) :-[ :-\
What are VCU and CDCM anyway, are they inside the PCU?
Hi Zuikkis. The cdcm is the climate defrost control module and is a black box under the dashboard on the passenger side. It controls the heat and cold air in the car. The VCU is the Vehicle Control Module and controls everything in the car from if you have the right key to dashboard lights and lots more. I think it is located under the dashboard by the steering column on the driver side. Have you tried to clear codes with the clear all malf codes in commtool?
Thanks @Marsto !
I forgot to say, I couldn't get serial port connection working in CommTool, only CAN. Now I see that you have version 3.08, I have some 2.xx installed but I found 3.08 already. I'll soon try again if it works. :)
Also I think I have now installed Think TechCentre properly.
I don't think anything should happen just by trying to start without a HV-plug in the PCU. It should do just the same as if the crash-swith has released or the lid on the PCU is removed. It won't or shouldn't start.
I suspect moisture and corrosion inside PCU. Just as I had in this thread:
https://elbilforum.no/index.php?topic=64383.0
Read what I wrote about measuring the EPO-circuit. Remove the little front lid of the PCU and look inside.
Hmmh. I got Think TechCentre working! There were some unrelated sounding errors in PCU which I managed to clear. They did not reappear. PCU now thinks the car is fine.
But BMS still reports crash and emergency, and those can't be cleared. I wonder what's happened?
Isolation fault is not reported, I'm pretty sure the car would drive. This is now a different issue from the original.
Oh no. It was just a blown fuse. :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPSgY_uwq29d31KI9_olwxkjPfTfiRZKkLdUzQCtZB5mDmWRvplouo1blkThI-pvFOOeb25RVsrlaGdP-vCiz-Q83IG4FkaxpRjoPOvjXPP3Wv4sY2pVd5inajfS1_nuKc1BTqlTxUE6x0DTNDyHlu48w=w1220-h820-s-no?authuser=0)
I tried to think back what exactly I did when the emergency/crash error started. In addition to removing the heater/AC HV wires, I also measured the HV + and - insulation resistance to ground (car powered off obviously!). It was about 5 megaohms whic I think is quite ok? I measured it from the heater connector using regular multimeter.
I can't remember it happening but I must have briefly short circuited the "connector sense" pin to ground. According to schematic, it seems to be permanent 12V..
Anyway, now back to wondering about the isolation error. It is gone now, though, but I'm sure it will come back later. worry's idea of moisture in PCU might be correct. I'll try to open the front lid.
Sucks a bit that I have A/C, makes accessing the PCU much more difficult. A/C doesn't work, though, I maybe remove it permanently if I need to remove the PCU..
Great! Glad you found it. :+1:
Keep us posted. :-)
Great news. Was it the 7.5A fuse in the fusebox that blew?
Sitat fra: Marsto på ons 28. feb 2024, kl. 03:36Great news. Was it the 7.5A fuse in the fusebox that blew?
Yes, exactly that one.
Thanks alot Zuikkis. You did an exellent job finding out but of course you are also an above average expert. This give me the opportunity to post this video from youtube to other Think owners that don`t have quite as much expertise knowledge in their head. Here is the link from Dala EV repair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpKY4OT5c24
:+1:
Nice to see you found the error your self, and so quickly Zuikkis :)
And yeah you are right that turning off the car will remove the fault from CHAS.
The "interesting" part, as you say, is the DCDC converter, was this before the fuse blew?
I'm not sure what this exactly points to, do you know if the HWDC unit reported anything through CAN?
If the external insulation (ISO) fault disappear when using blind plugs in the PCU, then the fault is in the external equipment you just unplugged (typically the heater) ;)
and yeah...
for the video (and every car troubleshooting), check 12V, check fuses, check CAN-messages.
That order :)
The DCDC converter error and ISO error were there before this fuse thing. I tried blind plug in both connectors and it did not fix the isolation error. This suggests that it must be in PCU or drive motor? Perhaps even in battery.
I think perhaps the DCDC error is a red herring. Perhaps DCDC fails simply because there is no HV available because of the isolation error?
Then again, the isolation error seems to come very easily when charging. Last weekend the car was like, it could easily be driven for several kilometers and the error would not come. But plug in charger and isolation error pops up in a few seconds.
Then again, a week ago it failed during driving with the same isolation error, so it's not only the charger that causes it.
And obviously now it fixed itself while I was wondering this blown fuse issue. :) Drives and charges well. But I can't trust it enough.
Most logical explanation would be water in the PCU, as worry suggested. I'll try to remove the cover to check how it looks inside.
Sitat fra: Marsto på ons 28. feb 2024, kl. 13:48Thanks alot Zuikkis. You did an exellent job finding out but of course you are also an above average expert. This give me the opportunity to post this video from youtube to other Think owners that don`t have quite as much expertise knowledge in their head. Here is the link from Dala EV repair.
Heh, funny that he took exactly the same steps as me, exactly the same schematic pages shown that I just pasted above and exactly the same fuse that was the culprit. I didn't know we have fellow Think fixers in Finland. :)
And horrors that some car repair had actually replaced the ABS pump when trying to find the problem!
My PCU also showed ABS fault code with Think TechCentre, even though ABS light was not lit and ABS is working. I think the PCU remembers old codes? I did have ABS issues months ago but it fixed itself.. Now that I cleared ABS code it hasn't come back.
The DCDC fault is a red herring. I looked at other CHAS screenshots from other people, especially in this thread:
https://elbilforum.no/index.php?topic=64367.0
Many screenshots here have this set:
din_dcdc_fault_l Dins[0]^11;
So I think it's as I thought; if there is any failure that prevents HV contactors operating, it will also pop up this DCDC fault...
Yeah, if the higher voltage DC is not present one can probably assume the DCDC and 12V charging is not working either...
And yeah, there is not much left if you have tested with blind plugs. As you say either Motor, PCU or battery itself. You can easily test which if you can access the hatch. If you disconnect the motor through it, you could check if the error is still present (you have to close the lid again due to the reed switch). This is safe to do.
(You can do the same test by disconnecting the battery connectors to just test the battery, but that would expose 400V so be very careful if you do!!! (isolate isolate isolate, and insulate!) It is safer to take the battery down and jump the EPO connector instead)
It's always external isolation fault, never internal. So it must be after the contactors? There's not much in the battery after the contactor, except the MLEC itself..
What's interesting, if this happens during driving, I just turn power off and back on.. The red triangle is still lit and NikoMeter shows the external iso fault, but car still drives for a few minutes. Then stops again and I have to power cycle again. I drove 20km like this, stopping at every bus stop..
But still now it seems to work again, no idea why.
It looks impossible to access the PCU cover with A/C in place.. I'll try tomorrow.
Looks like it's possible to access the PCU without removing A/C. The hoses are long enough so the radiator can be bent away to get better access.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPSpN6hlwY-kQ4sptevwmLQG0fn4rNPwCUQcJk01Ouq3lQXXvIsoZ6cQSjau3XL_LK9z-huojtsKCFo8jAZdeQ8jwzu3LBpmdUeccz4MPkfxHchABSclvcXk31EDSQJ3IwGgP1pD0XBRQtXjkAMQPxsdA=w1024?authuser=0)
Didn't have time to dismantle it further..
https://eleshop.eu/test-measure/insulation-testers.html?dir=asc&order=price
I ordered an insulation tester, might help to insulate the problem (what a pun! I should try standup comedy) :D
UT533 model, should be a good multimeter also.
There's good instructions about measuring in some other brand insulation tester's homepage:
https://www.hioki.com/in-en/learning/applications/detail/id_113356
:+1:
Yeah, I got hold of a insulation tester (Megger) from Ali express...
It works so far at least :P
https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005595673183.html
You should for instance be able to check each phase-leader of the motor towards it's chassi, and the same for the cabling from the battery towards its shielding. If one nicked them driving on a rocky road or something, one might also get moisture problems in them :)
I'm wondering if a motor could have a short which come and go with the rotation...
Sitat fra: Warlock på tor 29. feb 2024, kl. 21:49I'm wondering if a motor could have a short which come and go with the rotation...
Yeah, I thought about this as well. Because, car can still be driven big distances, but sometimes it fails during driving. When stopped, it sometimes charges OK and sometimes doesn't. Maybe it depends on the position of the motor?
Or then again perhaps it's just water moving around.
Luckily I have spare PCU and motor in the other car..
This sounds like what was experienced by a friend of mine. Occasional stop, and often started again after some minutes. In the end he found one unstable RLEC.
Did you try scanning the battery with CommTool? Look for strange cell voltages and temperatures.
Battery values look fine.. but you never know. Battery was fully disassembled half a year ago, but obviously it's possible there has been a hidden fault in some RLEC.
But still I don't know if that would create an external isolation fault, it should register some other battery fault?
Ok, so it's unlikely that you have water in the battery then.
What's the difference between internal and external isolation fault?
Internal= inside the battery, external= outside the battery.
However to my understanding it's MLEC that measures it, so any MLEC fail could trigger both isolation faults?
Also I think that if contactors are already closed and HV enters the PCU, there is no way to detect internal vs external? As the circuits are connected. So intermittent internal fault might actually be reported as external?
So really can't rule out battery fault either... :(
Oh. I found something with CommTool! The "User_Data" MSF shows the pack isolation resistance in Kohms!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOcnMl35Wr8LWNZGLtMLu6W8DuN9WUFISQ72Qz4jrZpENVK7thR7B5Ci7bafvv9NLkXBYyxnAbkUWXKzP1kiyIOJZvsKtIAGdBbrP9des-_oL2qU7LFTzJrOKU2jGVbR1W2EOgcbxKsFKeZsO_4MI4NFw=w1024?authuser=0)
This is with car idle but powered on. 1241K is not very much, is it? Just barely over 1M. Anyone want to check what is their value?
Anyway, then I plugged in the charger, and logged the values every 5 seconds. After a few minutes charging stopped because of isolation fault.
Pack_Volt Curr Pack_Iso_KOhms
342,7734 5 1426
342,6514 5 1267
342,7734 5 1345
342,7734 5 806
340,6982 0 766
156,0059 0 1241
156,3721 0 1241
So, Iso_Kohms drops to 806/766, and instantly charge current is cut of. Pack volts seem to be measured after the contactors or something like that, because also that drops.
I think the limit for accepted isolation resistance is 1M!
So perhaps it is the battery after all.
Interestingly battery shows exactly 1241 KOhms both before and after the test, you would think there is some spread. During charging the values wondered highest to 1537 and lowest was the 766 when it tripped.
:+1:
Wow, nice find, I've never noticed that one!
I guess measurements above 1 MegaOhm is ok, at least a couple of Meg, it might be the sensors maxout, not the actual isolation value. Will have to look ito that tho ... :)
At 1Mohm 400V gives only 0.4milliAmps, that would never be a problem for anyone (neither would 0.16Watt) but I guess they could just say that if they detect any ISO leakage with their sensors they raise the alarm....
Zuikkis. Warlock and me from Trondheim Thinkers found a way to determine if the ISO fault are internal or external. It requiers lowering the battery and beeing able to connect the cables off and on as the test progresses. Warlock have a much better understanding of this but to be able to do this you must access the EPO circuit inside the battery and have one connection marked P1 with purple cables jumped to make the pcu believe the battery is connected. Here is a picture of the EPO plug inside the battery that must be jumped.
I hope Warlock can fill in on the rest of the prosess we did to make a qualified determination if the iso fault is internal or external.
I believe I mentioned that method in an earlier post in this tread as the "safer way" to test. It requires taking down the battery pack. ISO error is as easy as some current is leaking from the high voltage circuit to car ground somehow, which of course is not good at all. If one has taken the battery down and disconnected the HV cable, the car will not close the contactors because the EPO-circuit is open, there is a small short-circuit jumper in the HV connector for the battery in the same way it is for the auxiliary connectors (Air-condition / heater). One can jump this directly in the P1 connector (the one Marsto has taken picture of) and the EPO-circuit is complete. Since nothing is connected to the HV outlet, one could now see if the ISO-error occurs. If it does, the leakage is inside the battery, if not, its somewhere along the cables, PCU, or motor.
Anyway, 6-800kOhm which gives less than 1milliAmp is not a mayor leakage, and would in many instances not be considered a short in any way. I dont believe it can be a transistor/component breakdown either (but who knows at 400V). The proposed hypothesis for moisture somewhere, maybe in combination with a damaged wire/ circuit board/ bare metal exposed somewhere really sounds more and more like the plausible culprit. However, one should never rule out a failing sensor either...
Yes I'm sure it's just moisture somewhere.
I think <1Mohm is the limit when Think triggers the isolation fault.
I know that in Tesla the recommended value is over 2Mohm when drive or charging, 3Mohm when connectors open..
My plan now is: wait for the insulation tester to arrive. Then measure insulation resistance from the heater connector. If that is too low, remove wires from PCU one by one until the leak is found.
When using this separate tester it's reasonably safe to remove even the battery wires from PCU, because there's no need to turn the power on so wires are not live. Of course extra care must be taken.
Hi,
Here's a reading of what you asked for. Taken while charging/balancing.
OK! 1530 is roughly in the same area as my 1241, only slightly better. Thanks for the info, now I know what is my target. :)
This is mine with all kinds of communication problems starting with high voltage errors and now after a month dried up a little and have CAN communication problems. Sometimes I am able to connect and sometimes not. I don`t know today how many faults exists but have no red triangle indicating HV faults which was present a month ago.
Funny, same 1241KOhms as mine .. maybe it's indeed some "good enough" indicator, not real value?
When car was charging, the value wandered wildly. But when idle it's always 1241.
Sitat fra: Zuikkis på tir 05. mar 2024, kl. 21:43Funny, same 1241KOhms as mine .. maybe it's indeed some "good enough" indicator, not real value?
When car was charging, the value wandered wildly. But when idle it's always 1241.
Yes, I think you are into something here. Lets hope more people will post their results.
I got my tester now. I measured the insulation directly from heater connector.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOzesRLbm8mzjMrrqFbhwg89XlJkHD1mt63HvM9EtiXmkWQzluawnfG1bsE5mggx4cppDCl4xZGajWmLOXVKlEuIBrAniGqWpugI3OMAYr0bPqPUJ9J46-iyu2Jf-LAoPkkwBfCeBrkQjNivbagzDRAMA=w1024)
Interestingly, there is absolutely no leak when car is powered off. Meter shows >550Mohm which is the maximum it can show. It is the same result when measuring either + to ground or - to ground.
Then I got brave and powered the car so battery is added to equation (and obviously there's now live 400V in the wires). The meter does seem to have slight issue with circuit being live, as it refuses to measure if it sees any negative voltage in the wires. But with + and - polarity correct, it measures about 10Mohm.
So in conclusion I'm now pretty sure the moisture is inside the battery.
However, car now did work fine, and I also charged without issues. Looking at CHAS, the reported isolation resistance while charging is now well above 2Mohm.
I think it is because of cold weather, it has been below 0C for whole week here so any liquid water must have frozen. I'll wait for warmer weather and test again. :)
I have looked at the user data values from time to time and enclose a couple of pictures from March 14 and today. All values taken when car is idle. In between these days the car have dried up enough to be able to charge and start as normal. The car is fully drivable now with no present error codes. Interesting to see how much higher the Ohms are when the car is in fully working order.
:+1:
Veldig fint å se at bien din tørker opp her altså :)
Om det er som vi antar, at sensoren er "good enough" og ikke nøyaktig kan faktisk høyere spenning alene også være med må å endre på denne verdien, jeg ser du har fått ladet opp bilen ca 40V mer :laugh:
Here is another reading today april 7 2024 and the kOhms keep rising up. This is a screenshot taken from coomtool with fully charged battery and just with the ignition on. The car is now fully drivable but have stayed in the garage and dried up even more. I wonder how high the kOhms will get?
Same here, car sits in the garage and Kohms keep getting higher and higher. I assume it's fully operational now, but I'll wait a bit for the roads to dry.
If I ever drop the battery, I think it would be great idea to remove all HV cables, and then use my insulation meter to check resistance between battery module - and the casing.. this should show which module in is leaking.
Last year when I fixed the battery, I only disassembled modules that had bad cells that needed replacing.. It's possible there was moisture somewhere even if the voltages showed correct.
Sitat fra: Zuikkis på man 08. apr 2024, kl. 07:32Same here, car sits in the garage and Kohms keep getting higher and higher. I assume it's fully operational now, but I'll wait a bit for the roads to dry.
If I ever drop the battery, I think it would be great idea to remove all HV cables, and then use my insulation meter to check resistance between battery module - and the casing.. this should show which module in is leaking.
Last year when I fixed the battery, I only disassembled modules that had bad cells that needed replacing.. It's possible there was moisture somewhere even if the voltages showed correct.
Great. If you ever drop the battery it would be extremely important to make a procedure for how the resistance messure is done followed up with pictures. Here in Trondheim I believe it is now time to do a testdrive to check if the whole HV system is back to normal.
I test drove the car today with Commtool running..
Initial KOhms were 2300K, but it kept dropping when I was driving. Eventually it was 1060K, which is quite bad if the "legal limit" is 1000K.
However the car drove fine, no issues.
Last night I charged the car to 100%, then drove to work today (about 20km). Now ohms were 2300K for most of the drive, but just dropped to 1800K when I was at work. Apparently the charging had dried the battery?
I hope it's ok now. :)
Sitat fra: Zuikkis på tir 09. apr 2024, kl. 07:51Last night I charged the car to 100%, then drove to work today (about 20km). Now ohms were 2300K for most of the drive, but just dropped to 1800K when I was at work. Apparently the charging had dried the battery?
I hope it's ok now. :)
Very promising development. I will try the same as you soon to see what happens to the KOhms in commtool.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOXH4hVMY2yOTuXUlpl8gr9mZrpMZhPl5K4WDZ5tjjE67NesHoFgiYkBbOarJmpvIUhL3POSsqR4Mdze2Ohef7l67v9tPWA2HlAERZt5BwxVAq_vg2CzB4E4_ncgNnEd-L6JmW1erQDo9dDxwY46pq2ig=w1024?authuser=0)
sigh... back to square one. Broken RLEC cards again, I'm not sure if I have enough left..
I think it should be possible to combine the two 400V strings into one. Connect two modules in parallel and let single RLEC take care of two modules, just what I did in my home energy storage. Or perhaps it's now time to design my own "RLEC clone" card..
Edit: Oh just noticed in another thread that there's still new RLECs available..
Just need to do it properly this time. I'm not sure if there's still a hole that lets water in, or is there some old water inside battery modules? Last year I only disassembled modules that had weak cells (voltage under 2V), perhaps they need to be all teared down and make sure they are dry..
Some horrible images.. >:(
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOCUSdQ1nxOzTBzijZymvLTh7RSObhAbRkt2DaaRgD6CdeL_P3Hpjn3yhEAECS0gmHsgCE1CEjRkOvtPQUxrdbqxxH6ue45l7hS6BcKIJPHV7OTZtjWo8M1X_EZrE6qUW52hFPpLyg85IKQPiftydx2Jw=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
Pack opened.. It really looks like someone sprayed the internals with a garden hose. I can't believe how wet it can be. And the pack was fully disassembled and the holes in the battery box fixed less than a year ago. I believe this all must be just condensation.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczO4AdUgR98wI_BUSCmSHdlrU_6TR9joFtDodKHu8D-Lef8DMMU3L5dlx1gvmlPsyT2yIfpw5jJKuoG5Sy2fjuCXG1p42JXVkOvOr0OKd7UV303xXt36LOiO8oX0gn2UDxTdOdRD3der5lGgG6Tv0OfwAQ=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
Even some mold in many places ..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczO_DnfUxR2jfHsALEQldJUGxOSQOQ4U1SQOOV0WXSQ9DCqiyLVXZI2RokEJE6u9AfoYzjdgBTFMHfp1o5rBPAwH7sRFQn_MYrh8ah6YCjEYo4Yqm5YWS2AOQx35Fq-iIURIf_OWkPqNyxSC1tGrAH3gEA=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPN-v3V_A8BaK6RXwQ_pyVFMmywZXU_wjVB03F9xmvupIfBFUs4kLncbnu2Htjq4M1O1Z1XVKUgMs_n9-TCjSb3aoPZyTkESOck0ctfDJPgglTQ514SW-oiNKIZt33zcJyrYXXGwl3jNg-31hPZlXqdnA=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOARLEqTdJrkWZHHXR9PnF-ZrZEPkDRBN2UN6QHT3AKSpGkW5S0fKSqyK3hPUEvlSaEbVOq4Qlot6uDUZ7TW2pTKebqO8k0QPH0_GxG3MOPOfmKQTpgCvWF-PqILzvFYs_Y3e2hCgpvM8dtn9kHtnzARw=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
And it's just a few months ago when car was driving fine, although with the occasional insulation errors.. There must have been water there. Lesson learned: open the box immediately when you get the first insulation error.
I measured all the battery modules for insulation resistance now that I have a meter. :) All other modules measured >550Mohm, which is maximum for the meter. But one module measured under 10M. This is perhaps the source of the insulation errors last winter.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczO3PEntj8TFtB1amYFhlUAOzdVDlFbOMAnmf_JiI8sJNqCSniqznz3apy-O2RExjsj5IFL7lIU2EoGamasS10DUUxbPtjMW8dNhCw1Iul6hZWiGsjPaX8eOkDUYo8rRoC_oVTuryYqW_HM5eyYsbr9Xtg=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
I removed the battery and it looked "rusty" on the outside, so there definitely has been water. And once the cells were out, there actually was liquid water inside the box, so that was causing the <10M reading..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczN9F7-vg4hFW8oHEveGuHhhMCAo3fYksJVJoBhYxSUToLFY6QswTvRaUMmy0rtyOnP4uf32xEJq7LOk9Np0VpaVJrziwh262jRCzG5caAZOspGGg0ZJ69_VTBEZZYiiJh6-SjTp2SRHIo7xs4EgdSjIQA=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
I measured module voltages, all others were at 48V (almost full) but two modules only had 44V. I plugged my "combiner board" in because it has convenient test points for individual cell voltages, so I could measure them with multimeter.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNRq8mpRLQwTAQ6t9jeUmDWdEdJKXjfGX32R23TograVBlgK4H6rpMitxbDhoCRz1ePCjtX4gMZpJTT84naBjdFy4KH1UqHbX24JMvoeQ9JtMFHusLgRUu34Y2IRncGtetd7bPdqraRdRSw8th9V87CRA=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
Sure enough, both 44V modules had one cell drained to 0V. However all others were fine. So only two cells lost in the entire pack. I do still have spares from my other pack, so this is not an issue.
But then the RLECs! Argh! Here's my test setup, one battery module and a Raspberry with CAN hat..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOfDOU0KMpGvdARE0pH1uVUMwVj0SEuv_JDeNspjmyszxhgpA0fD98DqLMgrnlUkYWYiuFcCPEPrjFkLYfk6nPO_RWoImo0yQwYXqaVA-OphLC0jAP951gOkcWrhTiMjm0IwKhRJj9YGvSyDVmjsyB3vw=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
Raspberry has wifi connection so this is nice portable setup, just need external +12V that powers both Raspberry and the RLEC.
It shows this kind of output:
Balance target 4100 mV, balanced cells: 0
Module 08 Reported: 48.23 V Calculated: 40.61 V 25 C Status 0x80
T: 23 23 23 23 22 23 23 23 23 23 22 22 ( 22- 23)
V: 612 4030 4021 4030 4026 4023 4018 56 3672 4038 4045 4038 (4045- 56 = 3989 mV)
24.07 11:54: Cell (56-4045)=3989 mV, Temp (22-23), Pack 40.61 V, Status 0x80
Here we can see that all temperatures read fine, but some cell voltages are faulty.. :(
Turns out that only four boards were still working. And then I have two boards from my other pack. That's not very good, only 6/32 working..
Here's the pile of broken ones:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNEcDzyT-3eBiaQoeNBedw9ksXhHRKEZxYu0Yvs8kOncAjiDswD1EWCsPt-Zuu0hR37aOHuHQFMRZ0pFodD0pFokTAuTQXxVPSGox4x-rD2_n0o2X9NTe2JUOLRvhWyu4FFRX5lE8hgc-7TzFQN7rDLQw=w1216-h912-s-no?authuser=0)
Ouch, that's bad. You definitely have a rather big leak somewhere.
Again, your experience here is a proof that we need to act quickly when water in the battery is suspected.
Myles still has RLEC's for sale, but I see your interest in developing new solutions. I don't have the necessary knowledge myself, but follow with interest. :)