En Think i Danmark YYCFT26B38J00xxxx

[Orla Pedersen]

Well-well. Just to clarify, 12 volt system incl. battery is up to standard, (brand new battery), the PCU charge the 12 volt battery perfectly when connected to mains.
But the zebra won't heat, and probably stopped charging because of low temperature, It was over night, i can't be sure.
The BMI state is now "Power up" but the "sys_ac" is indicating no 230v ac to the heating system.
Today I unpluged the AC inlet from the BMI, and messured the cabling, and there is 230v from the PCU. But I will check again with load on the cable, no need to be fooled by a high impedance multimeter 

Another test of the day was check of BMI InitSuccessfull and the BMI passed.
Anyone having a list of the CAN-messages for the BMI to zebra-monitor communication ? 

[Orla Pedersen]

Kort opdatering: 230 volt forsyningen er absolut ok frem til stikket på BMI, også med små 100 watt belastning. Men BMI melder stadig "sys_ac = 0". Ingen andre parametre har ændret sig fra d. 21. april, hvor batteriet varmede op, og der rent faktisk blev ladet 8% på batteriet før temperaturen faldt og ladeforløbet blev afbrudt.
Men hvorfor? Defekt/løs forbindelse i BMI?

I mellemtiden arbejder jeg med at tilføje flere can-parametre til "nico-meter" programmet.

[Orla Pedersen]

Noboddy got hurt, but scary anyway.

Sometime saturday or sunday the zebra battery in my car "exploded" leaving white dust inside the car and on the floor under the car. Whether it was a sudden bang or "just" gasses leaving in a controled manner i don't know, I wasn't there.... The dust inside the car had entered the cabin around the inspection lid in front of the passenger seat. Opening the lid revealed that the end of the battery case is expanded round shape by the pressure inside the battery. The BMI is pushed all the way to the structure of the car. White dust everywhere. Under the car the baseplate of the battery compartment is pressed downwards "ball shape", photo's to come later.

The god thing is that now i don't have to worry about repairing the BMI-fault concerning not recognising mains-AC...... But it is quite a "down to below zero"

The facts:
The car was connected to mains, as it has been since last update. I left it connected to keep the 12 volt battery charged, but looking back that was probably a bad idea with a BMI proved to be "unreliable". Sometime friday a college noticed the PCU-fan, but as i wasn't there I wasn't informed. The battery SOC has gone from 8% to 20% which indicates that charging was i progress when "something" happened. The BMI is somewhat still alive, will check data later....

[Go-carter]

This happened some years ago, with a norwegian Think Zebra with no other faults - and in working condition.

I am not aware of other incidents causing this.

[stradivaria]

Yes, It happens time to time, but there is a reason for every case.

Some cars had Internal isolation fault before (by Fiamm Sonick recommendation it has to be send to them or did not used anymore)

[BauDemo]

Some time ago I catch a car in a situation where the battery kept requesting a charge even though the battery was 100% charged.
What happened was that I had the car plugged for a day and when I came back I noticed that the battery cooling fan was on, and it shouldn't have been. So I plugged the nikometer and could see that the charger was pumping small current in the battery and the battery was at 265C (with the new firmware)... I unplugged the car and I am still driving it - so I don't think there was any damage, but it is a bit scary...
This event makes me think that there is a fault in the BMI software. I haven't had time to reverse engineer the software and confirm this...

[Orla Pedersen]

Internal iso fault is the obvius fault causing the battery to open. In this case probably a bit more than two cells shorted..... The dust is a bit acid to the level of "a spoon of salt in a kettle of water", more or less like failures should behave, aside that it should never have left the battery enclosure.

Like BauDemo i blame the BMI, The BMI should newer ever anytime reset itself from a category 4 error in the first place. It should show "Internal Iso Error", which it never did. It did show "General Iso Error, but that can be either inside or/and outside Iso error. The missing "sys-AC" just confused me even more.....
Anyone remembering DOS 4.0 

But now, It's week-end  to enjoy with family...... Next week i hope to find time to get the battery out, and clean the battery compartment from corrosive dust. It isn't over yet 

[BauDemo]

I am testing a replacing of the Zebra battery with Enerdel battery... It is not a straight process - PM or mail me if you are interested.

[Orla Pedersen]

I am testing a replacing of the Zebra battery with Enerdel battery... It is not a straight process - PM or mail me if you are interested.

No, changing battery type is not a simple task, and any experience would be appreciated.

My first idea with the car was to keep it original, and use it as a summer vehicle. Thats why i tryed to get the zebra in working condition. Finding a spare zebra in working condition is probably not realistic as it seems zebra's are dying of age now.
So....now it's more the like, can I get it running some way, hide best as I can that it's not original anymore. I'll consider any type of battery with a reasonably range, (that exludes lead-acid which in best case gives 50 - 60 Km. range), maybe LiFePo4. The choise very much depends on what I, or my work place can get near.
Serenergy A/S where I work, do, among other things, fit methanol fuel cell systems in cars as range extenders. Batteries are left here......
First thing now is to emulate the zebra BMI to find out if the PCU is ok. Who knows if it's defekt as well. Emulating the zebra BMI should be quite straight forward with the olimex board and modifying your software, and  the company has a high voltage - high power power suply that should be capable of at least moving the car.
All in all, the car is not meant as a means of transport, and money do matter.

[BauDemo]

Emulating the BMI with "my" software is a very interesting project - please document and share!

[Orla Pedersen]

Hej igen

Så er det defekte batteri ude af bilen, og som lovet et par billeder.



Masser af hvidt "salt"støv.



"Gravid" bundplade.....





Helt blokerede kølekanaler.

Jeg er også ret langt med rengøringen efter "eksplosionen". Så snart kan jeg igen se fremad 

[Orla Pedersen]

Jeg er stadig ikke helt færdig med rengøringen. Tæpperne er ude og skal renses, et par hulrum skal rustbeskyttes nu hvor der alligevel er adgang. Alt jern som ikke er malet skal tøres af for overfladerust. tiden går med andre ting........

This is gon'a take some time...........

Forleden koblede jeg BMI'en op for at hive lidt data ud af den. Den er stadig i live trods tæringer her og der.



Desktop setup with BMI, DuinoMite Mega, and very old homemade powersuply 

[PRensel]

This is gon'a take some time...........

But it's fun to do :-)

Why did you solder these wires to the BMI ?
It's much easier to use small AMP connectors.
Or get the original Tyco connector
http://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-963217-1.html

[Orla Pedersen]

Why did you solder these wires to the BMI ?

Don't know, just did it  Anyway all the connectors from the BMI will at some point be reused in an intermediate box sitting in the battery compartment, and with extension cables back to the room behind the battery. For ease of access to the "new" BMI-emulator/BMS. I don't want to alter any existing wiring just in case a working zebra might show up for free. 

[Orla Pedersen]

At long last, cleaning is finished, carpets back in and seats monted and connected. Now it's time for some BMI-emulation.

Langt om længe, færdig med at rense interiør, tæpperne er tilbage, sæder monteret og forbundet til ledningsnettet. Nu er det tid for lidt BMI-emulering. Brugte også lidt tid på at rustbeskytte hulrum der var skjult af tæpperne.